Character Discussion Jake and Rachel

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

They were kinda close, but it's said in a few books that they were on different sides of the family...didn't always do get togethers together. I would love to have seen a joint family thing with them, I can imagine the two of them glancing around, wondering if anyone besides Tom is a Yeerk.

Do we know which relatives of the two married? I do think Jake said it was cousin by marriage...or Rachel did, someone. Would have to be an aunt and uncle I think.

Comments

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

I THINK, but won't swear to, that it was their dads that were brothers, based on stuff in the book where Jake's family goes to a funeral. I've not gone and looked it up myself, but it's been discussed here before.

[kiriska.livejournal.com]

Their related on their dad's side, so their dads are brothers, yes. Rachel doesn't attend Jake's grandfather's funeral because it was his grandfather on his mother's side.

[kiriska.livejournal.com]

Wow, did I really just use "their" instead of "they're"? /dies of embarrassment

[1111-am.livejournal.com]

lol *patpat* it happens to the best of us :p

[dgcatanisiri.livejournal.com]

Thinking about it, I'm actually kind of disappointed that their familial relationship didn't come up as much as it could have, like for example exactly the situation you suggested. What is the point of having them be related when there is no serious usage of that connection? I can't recall Jake ever interacting with Jordan and Sara - I may be forgetting some time up at the Hork-Bajir camp, but the fact of it is, the fact that they're cousins seems pretty much a non-factor in the scheme of things, other than maybe being used as a tie for what drew Rachel in and made her the happy accident. The only time I recall it being used in the story was during the David trilogy and the whole thing with Saddler. I know that their families did drift apart after the divorce, but still, if Jake and Rachel are attending the same school, surely they'd be close enough that, for example, Naomi might hit up Jake's parents for baby-sitting or some such. It would have been interesting, for example, to see Tom try and convince Jordan and Sara to join the Sharing and how both Jake and Rachel react to that.

That said, their similarities are interesting, particularly in the fact that they are both the ones to really be pulled into the whole war effort. Rachel is the soldier who lost herself in war and Jake became the general who depended on her to do that. There's just enough differences in their attitudes that it affects how they are changed by the war, but as time goes on, you can sort of see them encouraging those traits in the other, particularly General Jake encouraging Rachel's darker side, and how she wouldn't hold back. That's why he sent her after Tom - she would be willing to kill him, and no one else could. And she knew that was why he sent her.

Both respected the other, and both knew what they were becoming because of the war. I would have liked to see more of their personal relationship, some discussions between the two. The only time that the two really spent in one-on-one conversations that I can recall with clarity was him being a flea on her back when she was Fluffer.

[a-happy-book.livejournal.com]

THIS.
is everything I want to say on the matter.

I really can't say anything other than I didn't really read the books when they were in the Valley so I can't remark on Jake's interactions with Sara and Jordan. As for Naomi hitting up Tom to babysit the kids while Rachel is 'conveniently' out for the night makes me LOL - would love to see a fic of awkward!Yeerk/Tom trying to persuade Jordan and Sara to go to the Sharing meetings. :P

(Plus you have an Ephram Brown icon. FTW.)

[caitieness.livejournal.com]

brb writing fic where tom tries to get jordan and sara to join the sharing.

but yes i agree with all of this.

[acts_of_tekla]

Wouldn't they have been a bit young? I know we've seen kid Controllers, but the only one I really remember is Karen, and she was taken because they were after her father, IIRC.

[dgcatanisiri.livejournal.com]

It would be about getting them to join up when they're young. Their minds are more malleable, and so the Yeerks would be more likely to figure out ways to make them into voluntary Controllers when they got older. The Sharing was about finding a way to create a way to infest the world without shots being fired, after all. Get them when they're young, teach them to accept this thing, maybe even play it up as a gift, or something that if they choose will bring them status or whatever... It may not always work, but it'd be an opening, and you know someone would fall for it. And it all starts with one - a voluntary Controller can be used to sway others to accept it.

[geritar.livejournal.com]

They had a lot of really great interaction in #22. They had that very serious talk where Rachel asked him why he told Ax to get HER and not any of the other Animorphs... and he admits that he sees she's changing, embracing her dark side, etc. etc.

#22 is my favorite book in the entire series because of the Jake/Rachel stuff and the realizations that Rachel makes about her dark side.

Some spoilers for the series

[penandpaper71.livejournal.com]

I've always actually been really interested in Jake and Rachel's relationship. I wish that there had been more exploration of it in the books and I was really disappointed that there was no interaction between the two families in the books, especially given that they clearly live so close to one another (Not that there aren't reasons for that distance. I just found it disappointing). I just thought there was a lot of unused potential for development there, but I thought that about the whole relationship between Rachel and Jake as well. I really enjoyed the development that was in the books, but it never felt like enough to me.

I also thought that the stuff with Crayak trying to pit Rachel against Jake was fascinating because it hits their relationship and tests their loyalties on a few different levels, in particular the personal level (Family and friendship) and professional one (In the sense of the format of their small army). I might be weird though. >_

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

I think the Jake/Rachel dynamic is actually one of my favorites in the series, because it's weirdly like the dark inverse of Tobias/Ax or something. Both are related, and both understand each other on this weird, almost mystical, fundamental level, but it's never really brought into the forefront or focus. Ax and Tobias were more the positive side of that relationship--we never really saw them get to know each other, but there was this kind of implicit understanding between them that they didn't really share with anyone else. Tobias knew about Ax's identity issues, knew about his loyalty issues, and never really judged him. Ax, likewise, recognized and accepted Tobias' pretty clear choice to reject his humanity.

Anyway, I'll save most of that for their day, but I think Jake and Rachel kind of mirror that. Rachel through a number of wacky hijinks in worse books, and just solid narration in better books, really understands Jake's leadership dilemmas and role a little better and more closely than anyone else. And Jake really understands Rachel's ruthlessness and ferocity, and not only how conflicted she is about it, but how necessary and horrible it is. And whereas Ax and Tobias kind of built a sturdy friendship over their mutual understanding, I think Rachel and Jake had this weird kind of resentment and antagonism. They knew each other, and hated what was reflected back at them, but they also grudgingly accepted it because they knew that the darkness in each of them was the only thing that could keep the other going. Rachel needed Jake so she could be Rachel, and Jake needed Rachel so he could be Jake.

I never really bought the Crayak-temptation thing in 48, tbh. I think Rachel understood that she couldn't be leader after 37, and before then, I never really got the indication that she wanted to be. I think their best character interaction moment was in 22. Jake letting Rachel go after David even though (or really, BECAUSE) he knew she'd rough him up, and then letting her send the rest of them away to atone for and internalize her own brutality when they were capturing David in morph. They just GET each other, and it's a really kind of cool, twisted, dark relationship.

[penandpaper71.livejournal.com]

I don't know that the Crayak thing was so much a matter of leadership as it was Rachel resenting being told what to do (And held back when Jake thought she was taking things too far) and wanting to do things her own way. I'm not really sure that she wants to be a leader. She tries it out a couple of times when Jake is out of commission, but never seems to take to the position (I'd say she gives up on the idea entirely in The Weakness), but she's also not really a fan of taking orders. She takes them from Jake most of the time, although she comes off resentful a few times even with Jake, but she's generally reluctant to take orders from anyone else.

She likes to do things her way and, in 48, Crayak was offering her the power to be able to do things her way (With fear added in to complicate the matter thanks to David)... with a serious price attached to that. I actually doubt that Rachel would ever really have caved in and accepted the offer, but I imagine that potential power could be rather intoxicating for her.

Of course, I could be reading that entirely incorrectly.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

I guess that's what I'm saying, is I don't think Rachel ever sought power. I think the resentment Rachel had for Jake went a little beyond her resenting him giving her orders--I think she resented him for knowing her deeply enough to realize she'd do anything he told her to do because, though ruthless and chaotic, if her rage had no purpose then it would explode inside of her. Jake was Rachel's violence dealer, if that makes sense. She could only get her fix through him. He was the floodgate, and she resented that that was the deal they'd come to.

I'm kind of talking out of my ass, though. My reading of 48 is that the entire damn book took place inside of Rachel's head. There's really nothing in the book itself, save some dialogue with Cassie, that takes place in the "real world" and as far as I remember, no one ever mentions it in another book. I could be wrong about that, but even if I am tbh I think I'd just ignore it. I think 48 was Rachel's fever-dream subconscious way of dealing with her own rage and violence in contexts she was comfortable with. Crayak represented the kind of unregulated, limitless expression of violence she thought she wanted, while David was like her lingering humanity and guilt. David was tying her to staying human and not becoming some warrior-monster. Which makes the choice of whether to kill him in the end all the more tragic in a way.

idk, I haven't read it in a while though

[penandpaper71.livejournal.com]

I definitely think her resentment of him had something to do with how well he knew her and what he knew about her (She says as much in The Solution. "And as for Jake, I found myself filled with a terrifying surge of pure hatred for him. I couldn't begin to explain it. But I swear at that moment I hated Jake far more then I did David." "And I couldn't face him. I couldn't face what he knew about me.").

But I do think she had some desire for power. Not in the sense that she wanted to control over others, but more in a that she wouldn't have to answer to any other and perhaps simply in a destructive sense. "The Drode leaned close, close enough to whisper so that only I could hear. 'Your friends are all relieved. Are you? Are you happy that peace has been restored? Or don't you itch for the chance to press those deadly claws another six inches forward, to tear open that exposed throat?'" "But what the Drode and his evil master Crayak had seen inside of me was real." (The Exposed).

And, as I recall, the first dream Rachel has in 48 is Jake telling her that she's too injured to fight and her insisting that she won't stay out of the battle which leads to them facing off. I read it as less an attempt to take Jake's place and more her reacting to the concept of being restrained and resenting him for doing so. For all the times that Jake has indulged Rachel, he's told her no just as many times and that can be hard for her to deal with. In the beginning of The Familiar, Rachel and Marco argue because Rachel refused to retreat when Jake ordered them to despite the fact that she was injured and couldn't see (In this case the conflict wasn't between Jake and Rachel, but I'd say that it all adds up over time). Rachel doesn't respond well to being restrained or taking orders. She's willing, to a certain extent, to follow Jake, but even that can be a hard at times.

I actually think that they have a fairly complex relationship, which is why I'm so fascinated by it (And why I really wish that it had gotten more treatment in the books. So much potential...). I think that they love each other very much, but at the same time, they resent each other for a variety of reasons, while still managing to complement one another when it comes to the war effort.

... I hope that this all makes sense.

Oh, but I do recall that Cassie mentions in one of the later books (After 48. I think in the fifties, but I don't remember which one and I don't currently have those books on hand to look it up. I think it was the one where they discuss the idea of recruiting new Animorphs, an idea Rcahel is less then thrilled with because of the experience with David.) that Cassie mentions that David returned to mess with Rachel on Crayak's behalf. She adds that Rachel never told her what she did with him, so I suppose that it happened in the real world, although I think I'd have preferred the dream explanation. Crayak's already proven that he can reach people in their dreams when he was messing with Jake and it would have felt more realistic to me.

And I apologize for posting this incompletely before. It posted before I was ready. :(

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

no worries. I think I agree with you, actually. Rachel's issue isn't about power in a leadership sense, but about power to control her surroundings. I think her parents' divorce has a lot to do with it. She couldn't keep a very important part of her life from crumbling and dismantling, so rather than obsessing herself with keeping things together, it's almost like she relishes the destruction. Destruction is easy and irreversible, and beautiful as long as it's her doing.

Yeah, I think Cassie did mention it at one point. Oh well. As much as I subscribe to the whole new criticism, close-reading thing I think I will selectively ignore that so my theory works :)

[acts_of_tekla]

Pah, they're all ghost written. Apply comic book continuity -- choose your own.

[geritar.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure, as unbelievable as it sounds, that Cassie was actually held ransom in the basement and Crayak actually DID appear and do all that crap with her.... Yeah, they never mentioned it again, but they didn't really have much of an opportunity to... they had bigger shit to worry about in #49 like MOAR ANIMORPHS.

In any case, I don't know why everyone gives #48 such a hard time.... Yeah, it was weird and kind of hard to follow, but I think it really said a lot about Rachel's character. I went into this in a lot more detail when we did the re-read like, 2 times ago (there's only so many times I can repeat myself without copying and pasting from earlier posts in which you and I already argued the exact same things almost lololol) but I basically said GIVE #48 A BREAK OK!!!

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

Lol I have been having severe de ja vu about discussions in here too, so I apologize about everything I have or am about to repeat.

I guess let me clarify: I don't think that it all took place in Rachel's head as some lame excuse so the book never happened. I mean, it's not my favorite book in the series, and I am among those who wish Rachel's narrative swan song was...different, but that doesn't mean this book had no redeeming qualities. I just like the dream explanation better.

First of all, stylistically, if this were real, this book doesn't feel "Animorphs." The two bumbling idiot henchmen, the secret underground lair, the tidal wave of rats...idk, it seemed almost deliberately incongruous. That, and the fact that what happened should have real-world consequences (Visser Three was like, there...I mean, he finds out they're human in the next book anyway, but shouldn't him finding out that his boss was tempting his main enemy mean something?) pretty much tells me either this story is so inept that it didn't even consider that stuff, or something else is going on.

I guess I like the dream explanation better b/c at this point, I don't think Rachel's internal dilemma is about a power struggle or her giving into the war or whatever. I think she's been given over. Damage is done. I think, at this point, the issue is her coming to terms with it. Am I a monster BECAUSE I get such a thrill out of fighting, or do I get such a thrill out of fighting because there is something dark, but not totally dishonorable, inside of me? I think David personified both the best and worst of what Rachel was capable of--wanton cruelty, torture, disregard for human empathy. But that didn't make her inhuman. She did all those things DESPITE her humanity. She trapped David because it needed to be done, even though he cried and begged and pleaded. I think this whole book was her subconscious attempt to reconcile her inhumane violence with the honor and necessity of having to do dirty work. War, especially in Animorphs, is about always toeing that line that separates you from the bad guys, and I think this book was just about how that line is a total illusion. Good and bad aren't so one-dimensional.

So I guess I don't think it's a dream because the book is bad. I think it's a dream because it makes the book better.

[blue_rampion]

You know I'd never considered it until you brought up the theory, but I do agree that it makes the book better. The whole book has this whole surreal, inner-struggle feel to it, and if it was a dream that makes the events in it all a reflection of Rachel, as opposed to just how she reacts to Crayak's temptation.

[1111-am.livejournal.com]

I love Jake and Rachel's relationship. It annoys me to no end on wikipedia how they say "Despite being cousins, Jake and Rachel maintain one of the weakest relationships among the characters" when I think in some ways they share one of the strongest. I think despite Rachel being the "reckless" and "ruthless" one throughout the series and Jake being the "responsible" one, they both easily could have taken up the other's roles. Jake by the end of the series became much more ruthless and did whatever it took to win the war, while in various moments in the series Rachel took on leadership – and I'm not just counting that time from #37, I'm thinking also how she handled the David situation too. I love it how right from the start we see how alike they are. Like in book #2 when Rachel even comments how alike they are and we can see that same, uh, spirit they have and then at the end Marco comments how Jake had Rachel's smile. I don't remember the exact quote but I love how Marco says something along the lines of "I don't know how I never noticed it before" [the same smile or w/e], but I like the idea that it's always been there, but it just wasn't noticed while she was alive. Lol I'm blabbering so I better go study instead :(

SPOILERS FOR END ^^^

[1111-am.livejournal.com]

Oops I totally forgot to add spoilers to that comment I made! SORRY!

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

It annoys me to no end on wikipedia how they say "Despite being cousins, Jake and Rachel maintain one of the weakest relationships among the characters" when I think in some ways they share one of the strongest.

lol so change it

it's not like wikipedia itself is an authority on these things

[dgcatanisiri.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's the 'weakest,' but I will say it's the one with some of the least textual developments, as I covered above. But yeah, if you disagree with Wikipedia, change it. It's written on the net, not in stone.

[tobiahawk.livejournal.com]

Sending your cousin on a suicide mission to kill your brother is right up there with telling your mom you love her as you push her off a cliff in my list of "how the hell did they market this to children... But I love it." moments,

[moonreviews]

They probably decided it was for children after only reading book 1 and then they had to continue publishing it as a children's series... At least, that's what I think, because book 1 was still quite "normal" for a children's book.
And now with the re-release, they can't suddenly start marketing it for adults as everyone remembers it as a children's series (because so many people started reading it at elementary school).

[sr-rivka42.livejournal.com]

Barnes & Noble has the re-released books in the "7-12" section. Maybe it fits best with those books in terms of length and vocabulary level, but in terms of actual content? I wouldn't let a seven-year old read these books.

[dgcatanisiri.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe not the later ones. The earlier ones, though, aren't that far out of the traditional children's fare. And I like that - the series grew up with the readers who'd joined up at the beginning.

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

I couldn't have handled these books at seven, and I have a ten-year-old niece that isn't ready for them, either. Maybe at twelve, if she has a bent for scifi by then.

[rayerai.livejournal.com]

Jake/Rachel is all about the unsaid.