Character discussion: Visser One

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

...That's the first Visser One. I found it interesting how she started playing politics against Visser Three after she got her position yanked, and the Anis were kinda in the middle...she didn't tell about them because of the intent to use it against Visser Three, but there was a lot of deception and trickery by the group to keep her from the free Hork-Bajir while at the same time trying to stick one to the Visser.

What I don't get, why didn't she drop out of Eva earlier and go for the Kendrona when she was being executed? Would she have been stomped if she had?

Comments

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

The Visser One storyline is the strongest single arc in the series for me, up until the point where it crashlands into mediocrity in #45. I love that it introduces political mindgames to the series as early as #5. And Visser is my favorite book in the series, with either #30 or #15 being my favorite in the series proper. So, um, I like me some Edriss.

Edriss, to me, is the invert to Aftran. If Aftran's capable of empathizing with her hosts and capable of wonder at the complexities of the human mind. Edriss is too, with one caveat; just because she understands (or thinks she does) doesn't really mean she cares, or even better, doesn't mean she won't use it to get exactly what she wants.

Edriss thinks she understands human love. She doesn't. She doesn't even get close. The most chilling line in Visser besides "I made Jenny Lines breathe" is "...I could always infest Madra, place some well-trained Yeerk in her head.
Then she would love me. She’d have no choice". I mean, seriously, WTF Edriss, that's not how it works you nutter. She sees the consequences of human emotion but doesn't really grasp the WHY. There's also a great series of lines where Edriss rages at Allison Kim for 'betraying' her, arguing that she treated Allison kindly and was used, betrayed, tricked. Edriss honestly doesn't see why her hosts all hate her. She has the reputation as the Yeerk who opened up the human mind, but she can't really shift her perspective to that of her hosts. She can only project what seems logical and rational to her onto them, and then gets flustered when they respond like humans instead of Yeerks.

That said, for those shortcomings, she's still better at it than other Yeerks, because she can predict what humans will do, as she did by creating the Sharing and by anticipating how Allison Kim would return to the hospital. That's part of why she hates Marco so much during Visser - she can't predict him, and then partway through the book he turns the tables on her in a way she didn't anticipate. Oh does she hate him. But she's easily smarter than Esplin and probably than a few of the Council Members, and is the most devious and intelligent Yeerk we see in the series.

In T9, someone brought up the idea that Allison may have been cultivating the love for Hildy/Essam and not Edriss, as a way to fuck with Edriss/assert autonomy. Upon rereading some chapters, it seems like that may be implied, that Allison is 'playing' Edriss by trying to push her towards Hildessam. Possibly Allison was even trying to set Edriss up for a challenge, sort of a 'bet you can't seduce him' sort of thing, because Edriss is totally in it for the challenge. I get the sense that while Edriss is ambitious and manipulative, it's not so much because she wants the glory, it's because she likes the challenge. She likes the challenge of ascending the ranks. She likes the challenge of finding a Class Five species, of being in a clever host, of trying to master human emotions. She absorbs knowledge like a sponge. She's outright disappointed in Jenny Lines for not fighting back.

I do love that she listens to her hosts' advice, though. The bits where she and Eva are piecing together what's going on in the trial are some of my favorites, and I can't see Esplin asking for Alloran's advice, for example.

Anyway, the point is that I love Edriss and find her absolutely fascinating. I have more thoughts on this, but I just want to put this up there because people are apparently psyched for Mah Magnificent Thoughts. <3

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

lol ugh after I'm fairly certain how I rank the chronicles books, you come here and post this and force me to reevaluate everything!

because you're totally right--visser is one of the deepest character studies we get in the entire series, and it's not just edriss as an individual we investigate, but the entire yeerk character and psychology overall. It's kind of sad, in a way, that they are so defined by domination, even on a deep level like that they're still obsessed with owning it, controlling it. Even when influenced by the *cosmically charged power of love*, all they want to do is dominate.

lol you put it much better than I did, but that is a really haunting line, and it's kind of that clinching detail, that climactic turning point, when we realized Edriss hasn't been changed by her experience as a human. She learned a lot, but even humanity, which this series seems to tout as granted with an overwhelming capacity for resilience and power, she turned to her old ways.

It makes me wonder what the real reason behind picking Eva was, too. We know it's because Eva was a mother, but why did she need to be? I'm thinking, based on your reading of it, it's because Edriss still didn't really understand what it meant. She could predict Allison's actions, but I don't think she understood the powerful, instinctual driving force behind them, that could make even a brilliant and rational person like Allison behave exactly as Edriss expected her too.

I like your reading of Allison/Hildy/Essam/Edriss' relationship, too, and it kind of answers a canon question of mine which is--whose kids are Madra and Darwin? Who expressed the desire and consent to make them? I really didn't think the text answered the question, which kind of infuriated me, but I also kind of understood the meaning behind it, like ~*~we're not supposed to know~*~ and it's supposed to show how little we actually own control of our actions at all, but I think you're right. Edriss and Essam had plenty of opportunities before infesting Allison and Hildy to conduct an affair--they were both in Hork-Bajir and in two other humans before. So was their love theirs? No, I think that they were more along for the ride than anything. Allison and Hildy, through whatever motivation, fell in love with each other, and Essam and Edriss simply indulged their deeper instincts.

I also think that ties into the fact that Edriss didn't stop taking coke or whatever when Jenny was addicted to it. I think that detail clinches that Yeerks are just as susceptible to petty human addictions and emotions as humans themselves, perhaps even moreso. An interesting reading of it, thanks for posting that, I thought about it all through my salad :)

[mattiris.livejournal.com]

I thought the line about coke was interesting because it suggests there's a certain level of detachment there from the Yeerk. They can fuck your host body up as much as they want but it won't affect them; they'll still be mentally on the ball while you're giggling and have the munchies.

That being said, when they can make you relive every memory or sensation in crystal clear perfection, I'm not sure why they'd still need to rely on drugs.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

see idk, I read it more as Edriss rationalizing it that way, but I think the Yeerk enjoys it just as much as the host.

Though I will admit there's a lot of discrepancy between just how much of a host's experience the Yeerk has to also experience. Wasn't there some line about them being able to quiet the pain or something? idk I feel like it changed in the middle at some point.

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

"I could not cut myself off entirely from the pain my host felt. Not without releasing my host altogether. She felt the pain, and so did I." is the direct quote. I guess they feel a little less of the pain the host feels? That's the way I tend to write it.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

okay. so they do have some degree of control, but not entirely. interesting, thanks for finding that

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Visser like, needs an extra fifty pages, to me. And then it would be perfection. Right now it's just really really goddamn good. But then again, the entire V1 plot needs a bunch of added material, especially #45 and no I will never get over that being the shortest book in the series.

Personally, I think that played a huge factor in why she picked Eva. She sort of just thought she could swap mothers/wives for each other, since they must all be the same, right? And she still didn't understand it, and wanted to understand it, but never really figured out how.

The other thing is that though we see very little of Eva in the series, she's incredibly strategic, and at points in Visser is piecing things together faster than Edriss can. And she espouses that 'free or dead' mentality that Edriss admired so much in Allison. We also know that Eva broke Edriss' control at least a few times ("don't join the military", "no, you have to kill her", and Peter mentions that it seemed like Eva was struggling with something before she died). So I think Edriss liked the challenge Eva presented, and that's why she kept her as her primary hosts.

Side note: the bit about Edriss keeping watch on her children through other hosts? How many other hosts did this biatch have? So much AWESOME fridge horror as to what all her other hosts did while she was running around in one of her warm bodies.

Great point about the coke, too. I do think Edriss represents a lot of the darker parts of humanity, which again, makes her the flip to Aftran, who is 'saved' through humanity while Edriss just gets more and more depraved and petty than she already was.

I wish I could take credit for the Allison/Hildy reading, but someone on AIM from trans9 suggested it and then I was all "that's brilliant!" and totally kiped it.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

ugh all the chronicles books need an extra fifty pages. The Andalite Chronicles just needs fifty different pages. And actually THBC was okay.

ughhh the first time she mentioned having more than one host I was like "LOL WHAT IS THERE SOME BUFFALO BILL WELL IN YOUR BASEMENT WTF GURL"

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Which fifty different pages in TAC, out of curiosity? *hasn't read it in months*

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

I kind of wish the fifty page walk through the Time Matrix Park would have been the fifty extra pages of happiness Elfangor got with Loren

but that just might be my fangirlishness spiking out of control, idk

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

I would have liked Loren/Elfangor explored more too. I didn't quite buy it the first time I read it, but it grew on me. Some more delivery of how that relationship really worked would have been nice.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

yeah, exactly. Though I guess when I first read it, I was young and ideal and gullible so it was more me going "WTF...WTF...WTF!" upon each revelation. I mean, not only is Loren like 16 but she's fucking her alien friend she fell in love with after a week?

wtf

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Hah, yeah. Though my thing was more of me taking a long time to warm up to Loren. For a long time she almost felt Sue-ish to me, like she had no special powers but she was such a special snowflake person who seemed almost tailor-made to have Elfangor fall for her. IDK. I like her more now.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

lol ngl I didn't know I was supposed to hate sues until learning what a sue was. then I hated them like, with compounded interest.

never thought of her as one, though

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Heh, I totally didn't know what a Sue was, I just remember thinking "this girl is a little TOO cool" when I was a kid and giving her the fisheye. I mean, I thought Rachel was cool too, but at least we got Rachel's narration at that point where she was like "I wasn't brave I was just blind LOL".

[sherrilina.livejournal.com]

I thought she continued Jenny's addiction just to keep her quiet in her head, that it didn't affect Edriss much? :s

And while Hildy and Alison's emotional natures probably contributed, I like to think (and think it's in the text) that to an extent it was the Yeerks' romance as well--perhaps they never had an affair earlier because they were still getting to know one another, growing closer during their exile, and things came to a head while influenced somewhat by Hildy and Alison. I just think it's more interesting and epic, these two aliens falling in love and playing it out in these two hosts, and the hosts following suit.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

see, I think a lot of this comes down to whether or not you trust Edriss' narration. Yeah, we see two sides to the whole Hildy-Allison-Edriss-Essam affair, but I think it's a little too simplistic to just assume one is a perfect lie and one is a perfect truth. Edriss is muddled by her own pretentions and denial, especially by her loyalty to the Yeerk race.

But I mean, I think it's perfectly acceptable for you to read it that way. It just never really sat right with me. Maybe it's not supposed to though, idk.

[acts_of_tekla]

Regarding Edriss, Eva, and Marco...um, I guess all I have to add is that I really like the irony of Edriss inadvertently creating her true nemesis by infesting Eva. The Animorphs were a whole lot more dangerous with Marco.

It's also interesting that in Visser we see that Marco thinks like his mom and is much closer to her in many ways than he was to his dad. Of course, computer engineering requires a similar kind of thought, but it's less the vicious bright line than mental Legos. Still, I wonder if that of thinking was what brought Peter and Eva together in the first place? Maybe they met at a chess tournament or something.

Watch as I extrapolate tons of junk from a few short scenes.

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Oh man, I have so many ideas about how Peter factors in, because I really don't think he's very much like Eva and Marco in terms of the Bright Clear Line ideology. I mean, in #45 he's concerned about his son stealing from Controllers. He's very clueless and from what we see of him in the series, very inept at just about anything but his job. From the series, I always read Peter as very good-hearted, very honest and sweet, very emotional, and brilliant (dude built a SPACE RADIO), but really kind of a dope and irresponsible. And a little bit passive-aggressive and emotionally manipulative. He's really just a genius ditz who's excellent with computers but has no fricking clue how to parent a teenager or deal with emotional trauma. Then again, I also think Peter has depression and was probably in therapy, on antidepressants or both during the series after #5.

Anyway, I always saw Peter and Eva kind of working together by tempering each other. Eva wouldn't put up for Peter's self-pitying baloney and Peter would bring out the sweet, vulnerable side of Eva (who's sharp as a whip but seems very proud). So together they kind of balanced. His relationship with Nora was different because after Eva 'died' and he mourned for years, he had to learn to stand on his own two feet, in a sense, and be a responsible adult. By the time Nora came along, he didn't need someone pressing him to be said responsible adult, so he could love Nora over shared passions and making-out-on-the-couch instead. A no less valid love, but a different one.

/blah blah blah I read too much into Peter and I love him even though he is Failure Dad in the Sad Cave.

[blue_rampion]

Your thoughts are always magnificent, Lisa ♥

And oooh yes. She definitely does not get how love works - and when you think about it, she doesn't care about the kids themselves. She cares for the idea of them, for the concept of "her children". She protects them because as far as she is concerned, they belong to her.