Character discussion: Visser One
Oct. 31st, 2010 11:54 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
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...That's the first Visser One. I found it interesting how she started playing politics against Visser Three after she got her position yanked, and the Anis were kinda in the middle...she didn't tell about them because of the intent to use it against Visser Three, but there was a lot of deception and trickery by the group to keep her from the free Hork-Bajir while at the same time trying to stick one to the Visser.
What I don't get, why didn't she drop out of Eva earlier and go for the Kendrona when she was being executed? Would she have been stomped if she had?
What I don't get, why didn't she drop out of Eva earlier and go for the Kendrona when she was being executed? Would she have been stomped if she had?
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Date: 2010-11-01 05:21 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2010-11-01 04:46 pm (UTC)I felt the revelation with her having kids, and that being the reason she didn't want all-out war, was brilliant, especially considering that the Eva-Marco relationship always colored our perception of Visser One. In fact, all of Visser was brilliant. I do wish that we'd run into Madra and Darwin again, though. In my personal canon, Eva and Peter searched them out and adopted them after Marco disappeared.
Can you think of any incident involving Visser One where an Animorph other than Marco was narrating? I can't think of any. It would have been interesting to see an action scene with her from an outside perspective.
Jake says "We may prefer Visser Three to be in charge. He makes stupid mistakes. His people all hate and fear him, which makes people less effective. And, we know him. Know what to expect. Visser One might be a more dangerous enemy."
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Date: 2010-11-02 01:27 am (UTC)And yes, the whole complicated mothers-and-children relationship was absolutely fascinating with Edriss. You've got this create you can't be a mother in her own form, and yet is absolutely fascinated with the idea of motherhood. She wants to experience it, but can't really understand it fully.
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Date: 2010-11-01 05:22 pm (UTC)Edriss, to me, is the invert to Aftran. If Aftran's capable of empathizing with her hosts and capable of wonder at the complexities of the human mind. Edriss is too, with one caveat; just because she understands (or thinks she does) doesn't really mean she cares, or even better, doesn't mean she won't use it to get exactly what she wants.
Edriss thinks she understands human love. She doesn't. She doesn't even get close. The most chilling line in Visser besides "I made Jenny Lines breathe" is "...I could always infest Madra, place some well-trained Yeerk in her head.
Then she would love me. She’d have no choice". I mean, seriously, WTF Edriss, that's not how it works you nutter. She sees the consequences of human emotion but doesn't really grasp the WHY. There's also a great series of lines where Edriss rages at Allison Kim for 'betraying' her, arguing that she treated Allison kindly and was used, betrayed, tricked. Edriss honestly doesn't see why her hosts all hate her. She has the reputation as the Yeerk who opened up the human mind, but she can't really shift her perspective to that of her hosts. She can only project what seems logical and rational to her onto them, and then gets flustered when they respond like humans instead of Yeerks.
That said, for those shortcomings, she's still better at it than other Yeerks, because she can predict what humans will do, as she did by creating the Sharing and by anticipating how Allison Kim would return to the hospital. That's part of why she hates Marco so much during Visser - she can't predict him, and then partway through the book he turns the tables on her in a way she didn't anticipate. Oh does she hate him. But she's easily smarter than Esplin and probably than a few of the Council Members, and is the most devious and intelligent Yeerk we see in the series.
In T9, someone brought up the idea that Allison may have been cultivating the love for Hildy/Essam and not Edriss, as a way to fuck with Edriss/assert autonomy. Upon rereading some chapters, it seems like that may be implied, that Allison is 'playing' Edriss by trying to push her towards Hildessam. Possibly Allison was even trying to set Edriss up for a challenge, sort of a 'bet you can't seduce him' sort of thing, because Edriss is totally in it for the challenge. I get the sense that while Edriss is ambitious and manipulative, it's not so much because she wants the glory, it's because she likes the challenge. She likes the challenge of ascending the ranks. She likes the challenge of finding a Class Five species, of being in a clever host, of trying to master human emotions. She absorbs knowledge like a sponge. She's outright disappointed in Jenny Lines for not fighting back.
I do love that she listens to her hosts' advice, though. The bits where she and Eva are piecing together what's going on in the trial are some of my favorites, and I can't see Esplin asking for Alloran's advice, for example.
Anyway, the point is that I love Edriss and find her absolutely fascinating. I have more thoughts on this, but I just want to put this up there because people are apparently psyched for Mah Magnificent Thoughts. <3
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Date: 2010-11-01 10:32 pm (UTC)because you're totally right--visser is one of the deepest character studies we get in the entire series, and it's not just edriss as an individual we investigate, but the entire yeerk character and psychology overall. It's kind of sad, in a way, that they are so defined by domination, even on a deep level like that they're still obsessed with owning it, controlling it. Even when influenced by the *cosmically charged power of love*, all they want to do is dominate.
lol you put it much better than I did, but that is a really haunting line, and it's kind of that clinching detail, that climactic turning point, when we realized Edriss hasn't been changed by her experience as a human. She learned a lot, but even humanity, which this series seems to tout as granted with an overwhelming capacity for resilience and power, she turned to her old ways.
It makes me wonder what the real reason behind picking Eva was, too. We know it's because Eva was a mother, but why did she need to be? I'm thinking, based on your reading of it, it's because Edriss still didn't really understand what it meant. She could predict Allison's actions, but I don't think she understood the powerful, instinctual driving force behind them, that could make even a brilliant and rational person like Allison behave exactly as Edriss expected her too.
I like your reading of Allison/Hildy/Essam/Edriss' relationship, too, and it kind of answers a canon question of mine which is--whose kids are Madra and Darwin? Who expressed the desire and consent to make them? I really didn't think the text answered the question, which kind of infuriated me, but I also kind of understood the meaning behind it, like ~*~we're not supposed to know~*~ and it's supposed to show how little we actually own control of our actions at all, but I think you're right. Edriss and Essam had plenty of opportunities before infesting Allison and Hildy to conduct an affair--they were both in Hork-Bajir and in two other humans before. So was their love theirs? No, I think that they were more along for the ride than anything. Allison and Hildy, through whatever motivation, fell in love with each other, and Essam and Edriss simply indulged their deeper instincts.
I also think that ties into the fact that Edriss didn't stop taking coke or whatever when Jenny was addicted to it. I think that detail clinches that Yeerks are just as susceptible to petty human addictions and emotions as humans themselves, perhaps even moreso. An interesting reading of it, thanks for posting that, I thought about it all through my salad :)
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Date: 2010-11-01 11:52 pm (UTC)That being said, when they can make you relive every memory or sensation in crystal clear perfection, I'm not sure why they'd still need to rely on drugs.
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Date: 2010-11-02 01:48 am (UTC)Though I will admit there's a lot of discrepancy between just how much of a host's experience the Yeerk has to also experience. Wasn't there some line about them being able to quiet the pain or something? idk I feel like it changed in the middle at some point.
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Date: 2010-11-02 03:23 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2010-11-02 12:13 am (UTC)and no I will never get over that being the shortest book in the series.Personally, I think that played a huge factor in why she picked Eva. She sort of just thought she could swap mothers/wives for each other, since they must all be the same, right? And she still didn't understand it, and wanted to understand it, but never really figured out how.
The other thing is that though we see very little of Eva in the series, she's incredibly strategic, and at points in Visser is piecing things together faster than Edriss can. And she espouses that 'free or dead' mentality that Edriss admired so much in Allison. We also know that Eva broke Edriss' control at least a few times ("don't join the military", "no, you have to kill her", and Peter mentions that it seemed like Eva was struggling with something before she died). So I think Edriss liked the challenge Eva presented, and that's why she kept her as her primary hosts.
Side note: the bit about Edriss keeping watch on her children through other hosts? How many other hosts did this biatch have? So much AWESOME fridge horror as to what all her other hosts did while she was running around in one of her warm bodies.
Great point about the coke, too. I do think Edriss represents a lot of the darker parts of humanity, which again, makes her the flip to Aftran, who is 'saved' through humanity while Edriss just gets more and more depraved and petty than she already was.
I wish I could take credit for the Allison/Hildy reading, but someone on AIM from trans9 suggested it and then I was all "that's brilliant!" and totally kiped it.
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Date: 2010-11-02 02:17 am (UTC)ughhh the first time she mentioned having more than one host I was like "LOL WHAT IS THERE SOME BUFFALO BILL WELL IN YOUR BASEMENT WTF GURL"
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Date: 2010-11-02 03:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-02 03:39 am (UTC)but that just might be my fangirlishness spiking out of control, idk
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Date: 2010-11-02 03:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-02 03:49 am (UTC)wtf
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Date: 2010-11-02 04:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-02 04:15 am (UTC)never thought of her as one, though
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Date: 2010-11-02 04:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-02 02:51 am (UTC)And while Hildy and Alison's emotional natures probably contributed, I like to think (and think it's in the text) that to an extent it was the Yeerks' romance as well--perhaps they never had an affair earlier because they were still getting to know one another, growing closer during their exile, and things came to a head while influenced somewhat by Hildy and Alison. I just think it's more interesting and epic, these two aliens falling in love and playing it out in these two hosts, and the hosts following suit.
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Date: 2010-11-02 02:57 am (UTC)But I mean, I think it's perfectly acceptable for you to read it that way. It just never really sat right with me. Maybe it's not supposed to though, idk.
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Date: 2010-11-02 01:27 am (UTC)It's also interesting that in Visser we see that Marco thinks like his mom and is much closer to her in many ways than he was to his dad. Of course, computer engineering requires a similar kind of thought, but it's less the vicious bright line than mental Legos. Still, I wonder if that of thinking was what brought Peter and Eva together in the first place? Maybe they met at a chess tournament or something.
Watch as I extrapolate tons of junk from a few short scenes.
Date: 2010-11-02 03:36 am (UTC)Anyway, I always saw Peter and Eva kind of working together by tempering each other. Eva wouldn't put up for Peter's self-pitying baloney and Peter would bring out the sweet, vulnerable side of Eva (who's sharp as a whip but seems very proud). So together they kind of balanced. His relationship with Nora was different because after Eva 'died' and he mourned for years, he had to learn to stand on his own two feet, in a sense, and be a responsible adult. By the time Nora came along, he didn't need someone pressing him to be said responsible adult, so he could love Nora over shared passions and making-out-on-the-couch instead. A no less valid love, but a different one.
/blah blah blah I read too much into Peter and I love him even though he is Failure Dad in the Sad Cave.
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Date: 2010-11-02 01:37 am (UTC)And oooh yes. She definitely does not get how love works - and when you think about it, she doesn't care about the kids themselves. She cares for the idea of them, for the concept of "her children". She protects them because as far as she is concerned, they belong to her.
Oh god, this is so long. x_X I AM SO SORRY. YOU ARE ALL MY GUINEA PIGS. (1/4?)
Date: 2010-11-03 02:56 am (UTC)At any rate, most of my interpretations of Edriss kind of boil down the basics of her motivations and personality to one or two points. First off, I think she's to some degree emblematic of the most basic Yeerk character and motivations, taken to their logical extremes, cranked up to eleven. She's got both the best and worst (to them, anyway) aspects and potentials of their kind. Not to get all Biblical and whatnot, but I think the Yeerks can at their core be defined as Greed--and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Greed is always wanting more, always wanting it better. It's hunger, lust, need. It's painful and uncomfortable and utterly insatiable. You can't be entirely content or satisfied or happy for good at any one point, not when there's still something left out of reach--and there's always something out of reach. There's never going to be something you don't want or can't do. There will always be someone better, something more enticing, something more you can have or something you have that you can improve. It can lead to disgusting excesses and cruel and selfish behavior, but it's also raw energy and drive to be harnessed, the basic building blocks of a personal life and society in general. Greed doesn't let you sit on your laurels and stagnate; if you had absolutely no desires, you'd be dead and wouldn't need anything, anyway. Instead, it pushes you to learn and do and obtain as much as you can, to better yourself and your position, to get out into the world and act and contribute. Greed makes you survive and thrive, because anything is better than stagnating and wasting away and just letting yourself die and fall into nothingness. All hardships can be endured as long as there's the potential for improvement.
That's the basic species-level drive for all Yeerks, I think, when it comes right down to it. They want more. They were utterly shafted in the evolutionary lottery, when it comes to being a sentient life form--they have a mind, but little to nothing to actually do with it. In their natural state, they're weak and helpless, barely mobile, barely capable of comprehending their surroundings. They can't see, can't hear, can't speak, can barely even feel. They can't reproduce without dying in the process, and even then, it's asexual. Their natural state is, frankly, fairly similar to what plenty of stories use as a fate worse than death for their villains, leaving them their own minds and nothing else. It's natural that, once they're aware of what they're missing, they would want to have that. Why not, when everyone else does? There's a whole big universe out there, and anyone would want to be a part of it. They want to experience it and be involved with it. They want freedom and feelings and connections, knowledge, strength, power over their own lives, control of their own fates--the sort of basic autonomy and agency that just about any other sentient species takes as a given right.
(2/4?)
Date: 2010-11-03 02:58 am (UTC)Amidst all that intelligence and ambition and scheming and manipulation is exactly what Marco saw in Visser One's eyes in the underwater base--a shark. Edriss can't stop moving, and it's the movement that's most important--the journey and all its experiences and emotions trump the destination, because she'll never be satisfied with setting down anywhere once and for all.
Earth was so thrilling because it was entirely unknown, uncharted, even practically mythical territory to the Yeerk Empire. There was nothing holding her back, and nothing to stop her from exploring and acting exactly as she pleased. Her success or failure depended almost purely on her own luck and cunning and abilities, with an allowance for Essam's help as well. (But at first, he seemed to be considered almost an extension of herself, as her assistant--so did that even count as something separate when he was just one more piece for the chessmaster to move?) And even more thrilling was that it worked. In this new wide-open frontier she was able to use her abilities to the utmost and create an effective plan, one she probably could have pulled off, given enough time and resources and support, if complications hadn't arisen.
The complications were what really screwed with her, I think. She went from the model of what a Yeerk should be, to the extremes of what a Yeerk could be--from a scheming conqueror and infiltrator who studied a species to better know how to control and own them utterly, to a sympathizer, a traitor who had been taken in by the very wonders she had sought to dominate and possess, who had been tricked and betrayed and entangled in her own webs. During that year or two, she hung in the balance, swinging between the perfect military commander and the sort of overwhelmed individual who could possibly have been coaxed into a mindset similar to the far-distant Yeerk Peace Movement, and eventually settled into a surprisingly well-integrated middle path, one where she could understand (sort of), appreciate, and sympathize with humans while not losing her need to use and control them. Part of her ending up so messed up by the experience was her fault as a person and as a Yeerk, but part of it was just humanity itself, and the people she chose for her hosts.
(3/5)
Date: 2010-11-03 03:00 am (UTC)That feeds into how actively Edriss screwed herself over by selecting the hosts she did, as well. Edriss is used to that situation. It can't be anything but that. Which is why she ended up so disappointed with her first two hosts; the defeated soldier and Jenny Lines were nothing. They were wastelands, worthless and ignorant, broken and defeated shells that barely had any purpose to exist, much less any use to her or society at large. She needs that duality, and she needs it to be a dynamic one. She prefers hosts that can challenge her, that she can find useful, that can make her learn and grow. In that sense, she likes a personality type surprisingly similar to herself--again, the intelligence and resourcefulness that Eva and Allison Kim display are rather similar to each other, and to her own behavior in some respects. She craves not only a useful pawn, but in some sense, a peer.
Because she likes having someone who could be considered a worthy adversary, that's exactly what she got. Eva and Allison Kim were intelligent, cunning, sophisticated people, who longed for freedom and who wanted to do everything they could to counteract their imprisonment. Allison Kim established a camaraderie early on, by actually talking to Edriss rather than just screaming and raging, learning from her and passing on learning herself, keeping her mind agile and her hope alive instead of giving in to despair and futility. She played games with Edriss to try and exploit intentional lapses in control--and also resisted seizing them immediately just for the sake of controlling herself, rather biding her time for opportunities that were advantageous, like when she nearly killed them both in a traffic accident. She was willing to sacrifice her own life in pursuit of freedom. She was willing to resort to trickery and manipulation of her own--as when she used their flow of information to maneuver Edriss into believing that she needed to not only research and learn about humans and their cultures to be able to conquer them, but that she needed to experience that cultural immersion to be able to truly understand them.
(4/5)
Date: 2010-11-03 03:06 am (UTC)The good news was that it sort of worked. The bad news was that it didn't happen completely, and by then she'd probably tangled up her mind and emotions and identity with Edriss' to some extent, in an awkward and ironic symbiosis that she was probably trying to prevent to begin with. I think Edriss did in fact fall in love with Essam, with Hildy, with humanity and their world in general, much like Essam did. Essam seems like he got it far worse and quite possibly went entirely native, and loved both Edriss and Allison deeply, but Edriss fell pretty hard, too. For about a year, she was almost a human, experiencing love and companionship for the first time, a true caring relationship in isolation from her power structure, a whole new world full of possibilities. She learned and performed a gender identity and sexuality, and got a front row ticket to the wonders of humanity, and she was addicted to the experiences and feelings they provided. She loved feeling alive and passionate and connected. But again, even though she was experiencing all of this--it was induced. Artificial. Manipulated. Second-hand, to some degree, because Allison Kim was the one who had originated and pushed it along for her, whereas Essam seemingly got to simply react and let things develop naturally on his side of things. Because it was to some extent tainted by Allison Kim's ulterior motives, Edriss didn't get a pure experience or understanding of love. She again got the what and a glimmer of how, but certainly not the why. No matter how truly she loved Essam in the end.... it was given to her by someone else, and because it didn't come from her initially, she couldn't understand why simply infesting Madra with a well-trained Yeerk and forcing her to love her wouldn't be what she wanted.
That was her fundamental disconnect, and probably a big important factor in why she remained Yeerkish at heart. She could grasp and exploit the motives without understanding them. She could take the cocaine to subjugate Jenny without (mostly) being sucked under herself, and she could rely on the parental affection to ensure that Allison Kim would come so she could ambush her. She could have her children and love them without really getting what that meant. I think she did love her children like she loved Essam--that is, genuinely but without the true, deep understanding that it deserved, because by that point she was so tangled up with Allison Kim that neither of them could help but love them and be influenced by each other, rather than let that love spring wholeheartedly from herself as an individual. They're her children, and HERS because she made them and they should be her possessions, and they're the embodiment of those joyous months of love and happiness and hope and endless potential and possibility.
DONE. x_X
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Date: 2010-11-03 03:30 am (UTC)Eeeee mermaid 8Dno subject
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