Character Discussion: Elfangor

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

I don't think I got him yet. We only saw a little of him in book one, plus the special books had him. Andalite Chronicles especially. I sometimes wish the group had gotten a chance to know him better, that he'd been around longer, and not just because of Tobias.

Comments

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

it was contrived, and this may just be retroactive reading, but when Crayak was introduced later and this whole concept of a "game" introduced in TEC, I always kind of assumed that was just whatever compromise they had made regarding Tobias. Which makes me wonder what the Ellimist gave up to Crayak in order to get that.

idk I was thinking about the *contrivedness* of Animorphs a little bit in rush hour one day and I kind of concluded...yeah, this series is hella contrived. The fact that EVERY SINGLE KID has some unknown stake in the war, that they're *preselected by some higher power* because of their unknown investment was terribly unlikely and kind of ungraceful storytelling...but hell, I'm here still talking about it ten years later because it all just played out so beautifully, you know?

naturalistic storytelling is great, but I think you've got to keep not only genre in mind, but also the need to fuel dramatic tension when thinking about this stuff. I mind it on a micro level, but on the grand scheme of things, Animorphs would have been much different without it.

[ghaweyriao.livejournal.com]

Maybe he sacrificed Jake and Cassie's love. :) No actually, it would've been interesting to see that. That's another thing that bothers me about the Ellimist - his rules for what is and isn't interference are maddeningly unclear. Although pretty much every series I can think of with some kind of higher power has this problem.

See, I actually didn't mind the preselection TOO much, because it's a nice little deconstruction of the idea that six random teenagers just *happen* to each have the unique skills and family backgrounds that the story requires. Although as you were saying downthread, it's a bit of a downer for free will.

Yeah, that's true, better a clumsy contrivance that enables a satisfying story than a naturalistic storyline that's not interesting. Just sometimes KAA pushes it too far. (Does Tobias really have to be Elfangor's son? Was that wholly necessary? I mean, you already have Marco with his mother as Visser One! You have fulfilled your Luke-I-am-your-father quota, woman!)

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

what was I just reading...UGH I CAN'T FIND IT but this guy basically rewrote the whole sixth season of LOST and had this awesome quote that was something like "a supreme being cannot call himself benign if he removes himself from violent affairs due to some undefined policy of noninterfering" about Jacob and all I could think of was ELLIMIST

sorry I seriously looked for this like for like 10 minutes and I can't find it anywhere. I'll comment again if I do, though if you didn't watch lost it probably won't matter b/c it's like 80 pages long lol :(

lol yeah she milked that Star Wars twist for all it was worth. I was less upset about Tobias being Elfangor's son, actually, even though she used the same plot twist twice than I was about Jake angsting so much about Tom when Marco's mom was VISSER ONE...but I'll save that for the Tom discussion I guess.

[ghaweyriao.livejournal.com]

I don't watch Lost, no, but that's pretty much the issue with near-omnipotent characters in fiction. Although I get the temptation to have them. (I actually used to really like the Ellimist, but after my second reread of TEC I don't much anymore. It's just kind of . . . ridiculous and unnecessary. I was amused at the parallels between Father and Mother from Remnants, though.)

The problem with Tobias and Elfangor, as has been discussed many times, is she didn't *do* anything with it. So why bother? Whereas at least Marco and Visser One got lots of fun murder-y times together.

Never thought of the Jake/Tom vs. Marco/Visser One thing before but now that you bring it up, hell yeah.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

lol I feel like I have to sit on my hands but the thing honestly I am SO SUPER PISSED we NEVER HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT was Alloran's family...I mean, we saw what Marco's Mom being Visser One did to his family, but can you imagine losing your father/husband to the enemy he had a hand in empowering? Can you imagine how taboo they became, how ostracized and judged? It's one thing being host to the most evil Yeerk in the empire, it's another when everyone you love knows it and know that there's a war going on in the first place.

I'll get to that more later, but as for your criticism--this may sound weird, but I think that's what makes it so tragic. It's just this big cancerous FACT that we can't do anything about but whine about or accept. Sure I would have loved to see a little bit more, but that just made the little we got so much sweeter.

[ghaweyriao.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, I would have liked to see that if only because I enjoy observing the sheer douchery of Andalite society. Seriously, the fact that the Andalites are the great good aliens of the galaxy and yet so fucked up is one of my favorite parts of the series.

You know what would have been fascinating? If, instead of killing Elfangor, Visser Three infested him.

I get what you're saying, but if you have to literally rewrite the spacetime continuum to produce a plot point, it better be something that ends up mattering. Tobias getting his morphing power back was egregiously contrived, but at least it moved the story in a significantly more positive direction.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

Infesting Elfangor?

Holy cow. The Yeerks would have figured out so much shit SO MUCH EARLIER.

TOBIAS

TIME MATRIX

ETC

DDD:

[ghaweyriao.livejournal.com]

Ah, I didn't even think of that! I was thinking of it from a characterization point of view . . . but Looord that woulda been bad. They would've known the Animorphs were human, which would have made the series much shorter and different, of course. And then the Time Matrix battle would've been epic.

Why didn't Visser Three infest him, though? Did they just hate each other too much? I mean, Visser Three's so obsessive about status, and that would have been a major blow to the Andalites. I guess they coudn't have done anything with Alloran (except killed him), considering there's no way Visser Three would've let anyone else have an Andalite host body. I was just thinking it would be interesting for the two of them to try to share minds. Also, if he knew about Tobias he would've known about Loren too. . . . . awwwwkward.

Also, Ax would have been SO confused and fucked up. At least when Visser Three killed his brother there was a proscribed ritual.

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Elfangor was dying...and for some reason couldn't morph. *shrug* Also, V3 would have lost all his crazy evil space dragon abomination morphs.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

Shhhhh woman we're are worst case senario AU-ing it here ;) Enough with your logic!

[ghaweyriao.livejournal.com]

Did it ever say he couldn't morph? I thought that was just a plot hole.

Ahh, true. The Andalites really didn't go around acquiring battle morphs, did they? That always seems odd. It seems like the Andalites would go for every weapon they could possibly use. I guess it just didn't occur to them? . . . but then why would it occur to Visser Three, who is not that bright by the time the series proper starts?

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Didn't he at the end of TAC?

Andalites seem pretty proud of their natural bodies, but yeah. Kind of never explained why they morphed so little.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

I always assumed it was an Andalite ego thing

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

In that instance I thought Elfangor was out of the energy to morph. The kids always talk about how exhausting it is to morph frequently. He knew he was dying, and knew it was more important to record his hirac delest and give the kids the cube.

[natural-blue-26.livejournal.com]

Thankfully Visser Three has a HUGEEEEE ego and was so obsessed with being the only Andalite host- because he never EVER would have trusted anyone else in an Andalite host body- that it probably never crossed his mind.



....


....But what if Visser One had been but in Elfangor?

Holy mother of Tobias vs Marco angst off RIGHT THERE.

[ghaweyriao.livejournal.com]

Not to mention Ax angst!


Plus Visser Three would be so pissed, hahahaha.