Asexuality in Animorphs...

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

What do people think about ace characters in Animorphs? (For clarity's sake I'm using "asexual" as the umbrella term to encompass greysexual, demisexual etc. You can find more information at aven-wiki or the main AVEN site.) 

Anyone have weird and wonderful theories, rants, discussions and/or headcanons (AU or canonical)? Or fics they are dying to see, or recommendations? If you haven't read Primeideal's Morphs and Magnets, I highly recommend it.

Comments

[swankivy.livejournal.com]

Can't think of any. All the major characters seemed pretty traditional when it came to relationships, as far as I remember, but since it was a kids' book, they wouldn't have been discussing sexual attraction, so for all we know some of the romantic relationships were ace. ;) The ones whose sexual attractions/interests weren't discussed were just that--not discussed. I don't remember any scenes where someone was in a position to express that sort of attraction and just didn't. (I kinda hate it when a character is pointed out as possibly being asexual just because a book doesn't happen to focus on their attractions or romances. I do think it's worth mentioning if there's a situation in which most people would respond to romantic attention a certain way--or express attraction--and didn't do so.)

[bdoing.livejournal.com]

My headcanon is that Marco's homoromantic and asexual (maybe grey-A/demi?) but really deep in the closet and so overcompensates to try to convince himself.

[blue_rampion]

For the main kids, I've never really had the sense that any of them are asexual. Although, you could possibly make an argument for Rachel and/or Tobias - after all, sex would be kiiiiinda tricky what with Tobias almost always being a bird, but we don't see anything that suggests that that strains on the relationship. Course, that could just be because the series is aimed at children and any real discussion of sex is off the table. Outside of the Animorphs, the Yeerks as a species probably count as 'asexual', since sex is something that only a few of them actually do and it does result in, you know, death. But that's more of a whole different framework of sexuality that's outside of what we encounter in human sexuality.

Course, asexuality in fiction is...tricky. How can you tell the difference between a character who is asexual, and a character who we just never have the opportunity to see any kind of romantic leanings or sexuality for? Not to mention since most people don't even register that asexuality exists, most authors don't either. And in fiction, it seems that a lack of interest in sex always paired with highly 'abnormal' characters - Sherlock Holmes, the Doctor, etc. They are amazing characters, certainly, but they are not normal, and I can't think of any example where just a normal, average person happens to be asexual. It's always something other, something that further highlights a character's oddity. Which possibly factors into the Yeerk's kind of asexuality - they are parasitic brain slugs, so that just further highlights how 'other' they are.

[errorsign.livejournal.com]

The trick here is that for most of the series, the main cast is in the age range for puberty, but their lives are so busy that they never quite care to bring it up, so it is reasonable to assume that in book 1, none of them have actually had puberty yet, while by the end of 54 they all had. There are some intense emotional experiences (Marco's monologue about anger in 15, Rachel's dialogue in 32 about herself, Jake's near death in 16, every Tobias book about his identity) that would be considered a puberty surge to a normal person, but are taken in context of the war instead. While I would classify sex as an instinct, I classify romantic affection (love) as something taught/learned. With the exception of Jake and Cassie's conversation in 53, I'd say the entire cast does this learning off-book, if at all.

Sex just doesn't factor into their lives as lived. Had they all been seniors in high school, yeah, then I see sex, along with other 'normal' things like jobs and independance being a factor in their lives. But they got involved in the war before they finished growing up, so naturally it consumed their lives (Rachel in 7 brings up life after the war, and then it sits until Jake and Cassie in 53).

It might not be fair to say they're asexual, because I don't believe they ever got the chance to learn about sexuality. (arranged) married to their jobs, almost.

[1111-am.livejournal.com]

I'd say Erek was asexual :P

[rattyjol.livejournal.com]

Of the main characters, Tobias is really the only one I could see being asexual. Jake, Cassie, Ax, and Marco we saw all being sexually attracted in the books. Rachel I'm pretty sure we've never actually seen sexually attracted to anyone (does that celebrity with three names count?), but I have trouble seeing her as ace. But I think Tobias could easily be hetero/biromantic and asexual, especially after spending so long as a hawk. I might elaborate on this more tomorrow when it's not four in the morning.

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is a topic made for me.

My most persistent headcanon is that, generally, Ax is heteroromantic but his human morph is bisexual. Which as you can imagine is incredibly confusing and complicated. I don't know, the explanation that "Phillip" had absolute no attraction to guys (despite sharing Cassie and Rachel's DNA!) never worked for me.

And Marco has always struck me as flexible. I could buy that he has an unrequited/unacknowledged crush on Jake. Plus, he can't shut up about how pretty Ax is. Though that last part is true of all of them... hell, I think the guys whine about it more than the girls.

Forgot to add: I'd never considered Tobias asexual before but that fic has made me reconsider. He is very Rachel-focused to the point where him being demisexual or Grey-A for her would make a lot of sense.

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

I think we've talked about this before, but Marco gives off an overcompensating vibe to me too, even if I'm not sure how to categorize him.

(Hi, it's i-wakeupstrange on Tumblr!)

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

Even the Yeerks are a little complicated! Most of them seem to fit into an asexual sort of grouping, but then you have outliers like the Yeerk relationship in #8 and Edriss' complicated feelings for Essam/Hildy and Allison Kim which were at least a romantic in nature.

Oh, KAA. Sneaking a canon foursome into children's literature. Good job.

But as you said, the Yeerks are operating on an entirely different framework. It feels wrong to slap a human label onto them. They don't even have a gender -- and gender's such a huge part of human society!

Also, I agree with your point that asexuality seems reserved for 'abnormal' characters. It's rather annoying. Tobias would fit into that category, too, if he were canonically ace which is why I'm actually glad that's not canon (though as I said in my comment it's an interpretation that matches up very well with what we see in the books).

[tobiahawk.livejournal.com]

I could buy Tobias as demi-sexual/asexual. I also think he had a bit of crush on Jake in book one, though that could just be non-romantic hero worship.

[primeideal (from livejournal.com)]

So, the irony here is that my fic has apparently influenced people but it wasn't my prompt at all. Animorphs was never a fandom I really thought about in terms of asexuality and stuff because there was no mention either way--I guess the lack of focus on sex is something I'm used to and appreciate.

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

This is a very good point. The kids' involvement in the war has stunted what we'd call "normal" development. Think about it: even if they were at the age to start doing regular teen things like dating or working part-time or whatever, could they? In 20, Marco laments that he can't date -- how could he be sure his girlfriend wasn't a Controller? And by 45, forget it, he's not meeting anyone while hiding out in the woods. (No wonder he dates so many women in 54. He's making up for lost time.)

And let's not even touch on Ax and Tobias. They're both ripped apart from their culture at the peak of adolescence. It's going to be hard for any girl after Rachel to put up with Tobias' lacking social graces. Ax's brief fling with Estrid wasn't exactly normal to begin with and it's definitely influenced by the human behavior he's been absorbing. It wasn't Estrid's idea that they kiss, after all. At least he has the whole War-Prince thing working for him after the war...

tl;dr: It's worth nothing that the only person who has a normal relationship post-war is Cassie. Whose relationship with Jake was intense (because it's war) but relatively normal.

[primeideal (from livejournal.com)]

Eh, but I just reread 25 and Marco does get a date there. It doesn't work out great for him (for non-Yeerkish reasons).

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that one was allll Marco. Didn't he fall asleep on her? In a darkened theater no less. His poor date.

I don't think the problem is that Marco couldn't find a girlfriend. He's cute and he's funny. He even manages to convince Rachel to give him a chance in MM4. But can he have a real relationship? Rachel and Tobias are in an odd situation, but at least there's a consistency there. And more importantly, trust! Post-war, Marco's facing a bit of learning gap. That's all I'm saying. I don't see him opening up to any of those supermodels, you know?

(I should add that I don't think there's anything wrong with not dating during your teen years. I didn't start dating until my twenties. And while I don't care for labels, I would say I am some shade of grey.)

[felinephoenix.livejournal.com]

I guess the lack of focus on sex is something I'm used to and appreciate.

Yeah. I get that feeling.

I wonder if the fic started all this discussion because it tapped into something in the text? As I said, Tobias seems to only have eyes for one person, and that's Rachel. It may not have been your prompt but I think it's a very plausible interpretation of Rachel/Tobias as an ace or mixed-sexual relationship, as well as Tobias as an asexual character.

[sherrilina.livejournal.com]

I don't think Tobias was asexual, he clearly yearned for Rachel, even if he couldn't act on it! And likewise with Rachel...

IA with what someone said before, the only characters I really see as asexual are Erek, and maybe Visser Three, lol. I think most Yeerks are probably asexual (given their method of reproducing), but perhaps being in humans can influence them--do we know of any examples of Yeerk romance besides ones in human hosts? :s

[amusesme.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered about the characters and their sexuality because it's a topic that fascinates me endlessly.

I see Rachel as a very physical person. I imagine she expresses herself physically in most situations (do we remember when she shoved a fork into David's ear?), so of course her affection would ALSO be physical. We do see tender moments between Tobias and Rachel, where she is softer. But overall, I get the sense that Rachel is frustrated with Tobias--not because he is lacking love or affection-- but because he refuses to live in a physical human body. This is IMPORTANT to Rachel.

Tobias is almost completely opposite in this regard. He lives mostly in his head. I feel like he has an entire world of inner-thought that most people don't experience. To him, expressing his love for Rachel physically is not important. The time we see them kiss is after he's been tortured, and also after he thinks Rachel is dead. These are exceptional moments, where an outward expression of his affection is necessary. It's not something he NORMALLY would do.

There is no doubt that Tobias has great love for Rachel. Rachel also has great love for Tobias. However, I have trouble seeing their relationship as sexual. For this reason, I believe Rachel would not have been able to keep a healthy or stable relationship with Tobias post-war, had she lived.

None of the characters have very normal interactions when it comes to attraction. They put so many of their human emotions and experiences aside for the sake of the war. They are soldiers first, teenagers second. I find this both tragic and wildly interesting. I love to think about the times they may have slipped and done something stupidly normal like stupid teenagers often do. Especially when it comes to sexual attraction. I CAN'T HELP IT I'M SORRY.

[blue_rampion]

Plus for Yeerks, threesome's are essentially the normal way of reproducing. (And I do often wonder how it's decided who it is that reproduces. Do they decide on their own? Are they assigned to reproduce by the Yeerk leaders? Is there some kind of separate breed of Yeerk that is specifically built to reproduce, like a Queen bee?)

The 'abnormalness' of asexuality in fiction is definitely something that bothers me a lot. Since really, it just continues to put across the message that if you are asexual, you are not normal and there is something wrong with you. And Tobias would fit that too - he's a boy trapped as a bird, he's got this weird Andalite heritage going on, he's messed up from his childhood. You can certainly headcanon and make arguments for him being asexual, but god I really wish that we could just have characters that were normal people who just happened to be asexual.

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

It's not your prompt, but as felinephoenix pointed out, you've claimed it and done a convincing job of it. :)
I didn't mean to single you out, or your fic. It's just that ace fics are rare in most fandoms, except Sherlock. It's really refreshing to see one in Ani-fandom.

Do you mean the lack of sex in fandom or canon?

[primeideal (from livejournal.com)]

No problem! The thing is, I love gen fic, so I write a lot of my fic that way even if it's not explicitly ace.

Was referring to the lack of sex in canon.

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

Yes, excellent point. I hadn't even thought about this before, but you're right. Even the normal people don't turn out to be ace most of the time: there was an episode of House a while ago which had an asexual couple 'cured'. The husband had low libido because of some brain tumour - which would've been fine - but then it turned out his wife had been pretending to identify as ace just to please him.
Is Sherlock explicitly said to be asexual in BBC canon, or is it just implied (heavily or subtly)?

I see how Tobias fits that pattern too, but I was just so excited to see a plausible fic about an asexual character in such a small fandom. :D

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

Ax's brief fling with Estrid wasn't exactly normal to begin with and it's definitely influenced by the human behavior he's been absorbing. It wasn't Estrid's idea that they kiss, after all.

Interesting point! And certainly plausible, given he hasn't seen or touched an Andalite in a couple of years, until Estrid comes along and the hormones kick in. I also get the impression the Andalites aren't exactly big on sex ed, but that might just be due to Ax's largely military education - after all, who knows how civilian Andalite society views sex?

[blue_rampion]

I don't think I've seen that. I'd hesitate to comment without seeing the episode in question, since sadly with relationships and sexuality and people being the complicated and messy things that hey are, I wouldn't put the idea of someone pretending to be asexual completely out of the realm of possibility. But it could also be the sort of thing that implies that asexuality is a real thing and asexuals are just ill or 'pretending', so yeah. The handling there would be important.

For the BBC Sherlock, they've said it in interviews and whatnot, if I recall correctly. (And that actually is another thing that happens a lot - it might be implied that a character is asexual, but it's often not stated). But yes - from what I've heard, Sherlock Holmes not showing any interest in sex was also in the originals? I can't say for certain though, as I've only read a couple of the books and that was yonks ago.

Another example would be Sheldon from the Big Bag Theory - except I didn't bring him up before since I don't watch that show, so I only know about him second-hand. But he's also a character that asexual but is also abnormal and extreme.

I did actually comment originally before I read the fic, I must admit XD (shame on me...) It is a very good fic though, and one that is written very convincingly. And you don't really see asexuality being written about much, period, in any fandom.

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

Oh, fair enough! Gen fic is always awesome, and friendship fic is gold, especially R/C friendship (I adore them. There was never enough said about it in canon, sadly). But asexuality's not an issue that's often explored RL or in fandom, partly because it's such a new concept. I'm not saying we should all drop everything else and write only ace, it's just so nice to see something that's not often written about. :D

[primeideal (from livejournal.com)]

Okay. Thinking more about what I meant as regards irony, the beginning of that story--with Marco making snide remarks and Jake not appreciating it (which was also from the prompt), was something that came very naturally to me and does sort of seem like it's drawing on the text. What surprised me about the prompt was assuming Rachel (or any of them at that age) would want to have sex, because I'm not really sure what age that kicks in (I don't really identify as ace due to broader epistemological issues, but don't identify as anything else either). So maybe I'll write more ace stuff someday.