Character discussion Erek and the team

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

I almost forgot about Erek, so I'll just throw him out with the rest of the gang. Jake was the one I noticed having the most conflict with him, by the end anyway. Erek didn't like Jake dumping the Yeerks into space. But before that, they all got along well.

I do find the first Chee book interesting, The Android...Erek wanting to help fight and redoing his programming, and the effect it had because he couldn't ever forget it.

The stuff with Marco and his dad and the Chee in The Revelation was fun.

I do want to throw out a couple of Crayak and Ellimist discussions, but I'm still going to move to the races soon, promise. (how does subject bar memory not show Crayak and Ellmist? lol. I'll also do Crayak and Jake and Crayak and Rachel and perhaps Ellimist and Father and that'll be it, as of now.

Comments

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

I kind of had a hard time buying that not being able to forget the violence somehow made it worse--aren't those the kind of memories that remain the clearest for most people? The very worst memories (and the very best)?

And couldn't he have programmed something to help lessen the effect?

[blue_rampion]

I am so so far from an expert, but I vaguely recall reading something that said that apparently we're actually hardwired to remember negative memories more than positive ones too? You know, as a deterrent from doing That Thing That Caused You Lots of Pain, your brain remembers it really well.

Also, even for traumatic memories that you can't remember - well, they can't still have plenty of an effect on a person's mental health, even if they can't consciously remember them.

And you would think that a machine would be able to just...not choose to access a particular memory. Don't like it? OKAY, PUTTING YOU IN THE "DO NOT LOOK AT" FILE!

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

That sounds right. I won't swear to it (I nearly failed psychology, lol), but that is logical and I think I've read it as well. Knowing something traumatic happened but not being able to remember it would probably be WORSE, in most cases.

But yeah, you'd think he could program in some kind of workaround.

How disappointing must it have been, for the Anis, to see the Chee kick SO MUCH ASS and then have the Chee be all NEVER AGAIN. Like, "oh hey we may actually win this fairly quickly!" and then "LOL NOPE."

(Now I'm imagining Erek with the Troll Face for face. XD)

[blue_rampion]

I always got the impression that seeing Erek kicking ass was really disturbing for them? Like, that it was so violent that they all wanted to forget it or something. Although this was early on in the war - they might not have found it as disturbing later on, perhaps.

Which actually, when you think about it...if Erek went overboard with the violence, that kinda says something about him. And while he can't perform violence thanks to programming, Erek is far from a pacifist. After all, he basically manipulates the Animorphs to do his violence for him, when they were fighting the Howlers. Which just makes his actions at the end really hypocritical. YOU ARE NOT SOMEONE WHO CAN TAKE THE MORAL HIGH GROUND HERE, EREK.

fffff - the Troll Dog Face, perhaps? XD

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but if the Chee had stayed in, they might've not ever had to go out and fight again. They could've traded roles; Animorphs for spying/intelligence and Chee for ass-kicking.

Oh yes, I've seen it posited before somewhere on this comm that Erek even WANTING to have his programming altered wasn't the action of a pacifist person, it was the action of a violent person. I need to reread the Howlers book but yeah, he makes it so that violence can be committed, even if he can't do it himself.

^_^

[blue_rampion]

Oh, definitely. Really, Erek and the Chee could have ended the whole war so much earlier. Although then I guess the question would be - what happens after the war is won? Would the Chee change their programming back? Keep it, but stay hidden? Decide to become Earth's robot dog overlords? WHO KNOWS.

Personally, I find that it makes Erek's actions and attempts to justify at the end really...well, underhanded and petty. He wasn't attempting to reduce the violence - he was aiming to indirectly cause violence on the Animorphs, as revenge. The Animorphs violent actions against the Yeerks are at least caused by the fact that the Yeerks have been enslaving and killing their species - Erek was just ticked off that they made him use some holograms and participate in a plan to save the Earth that he didn't want to participate in. Him being ticked off is understandable, yeah, but not something that justifies engineering something that would allow some of invaders to go free and get Rachel killed.

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

In allowing Rachel to get killed he defeated his own programming and made the ending depressing.

And ROFL ROBOT DOG OVERLORDS.

Except actually that would be kind of terrifying. I'm scared of dogs as it is.

[dgcatanisiri.livejournal.com]

People harp on Cassie being the hypocritical one, but really, I'm with the above conversation about how Erek can be considered the greater hypocrite in the whole series. If he were the complete pacifist he claimed to be programed to be, he wouldn't have been involved in the war at all. And the Howler thing, not wanting them to live... How does that compare to the values he says he's programmed with? I mean, hell, the essence of the Pemalites bound to wolves created dogs, and most of the time, a dog who has been wronged by a person will, extremely quickly turn around and want to play with them again. Dogs forgive. Erek didn't.

Here's a thought. Has Erek's programming been corrupted through age and he's actually malfunctioning? We don't actually get a whole lot from the Chee beyond what comes from him, after all. He may have been a respected elder among the Chee who was losing his mind and none of other Chee were ready to say 'hey, you're crossing every line we have, maybe you need a diagnostic.'

[mattiris.livejournal.com]

"Oh, that Andalite versus Yeerk war is on Earth now, we need a Chee assigned to look after it. Hey, let's give to Erek! That crazy old coot is always doing silly stuff. Remember back in the 1400s when he started glitching and going on about some race called the Pemalites and how no Chee can ever commit violence? Man, what a joke."

[tobiahawk.livejournal.com]

I'll add actual value later, but I still have a soft spot for my favorite crack!ship--post-54 Erek/Cassie.

[acts_of_tekla]

Yeah, as someone who majored in Peace and Justice Studies, the handling of pacifism and morality in this series bugs me a little. Maybe if they had been more consistent about what the Chee could actually do (e.g. in #10, Erek's "father" can restrain grizzly!Rachel as long as he doesn't hurt her, but in #29, Eric can't take any action to hide Ax for some reason?), or made it more clear that they were technical pacifists (no direct physical violence) rather than actual pacifists (like the Quit India Movement) -- which would actually make some sort of sense, given that they were programmed androids after all. But it was never consistent, so it was just frustrating as a reader and made Erek seem hypocritical.