Character Discussion: Rachel and Tobias

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

I've shipped them pretty much all along. The forbidden love thing is probably a common trope, but they did make for a good storyline. In this case, he could have been with her if he'd become a human nothlit, but then he'd have been out of the fight for good.

Anyone think he might have done it after the war ended if Rachel had lived? It's hard to say because of how adjusted he was by then to hawk life. There'd be an option of her finding a female hawk to morph, but IDK asbout that either.

Comments

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

I think maybe if the war had ended sooner...MAYBE he would've been able to give up his powers to be with her (it would've taken a lot, though, I think). But by the end, even if she had lived, the war had reached a point where they'd all changed too much I think to really continue any relationships they might've had before without significant reflection on what had happened over the years.

I don't think Rachel would've been satisfied with him just morphing back and forth, always returning to his hawk body, never able to do things like sleep in the same bed or watch a movie all the way through or anything "normal" couples do, and she probably would crave that sense of normalcy after so much war. At the same time I don't think Tobias could sacrifice his freedom in morphing to be with who she'd become by the end of the war, either. If it were sooner, perhaps--if he loved her that much--but tragically things didn't work out that way, and I'm not sure if the people they were by the end could have lasted the long run, much as I loved their subtle romance in the books.

[sherrilina.livejournal.com]

IDK how much she would have craved normalcy, since I think she was too addicted to fighting by then, but for the most part I think you raise some fair points here.

[fencer-x.livejournal.com]

A good point :) I do think the war was something she embraced much more than any of the others, and it would've been hard for her to put it away, even if some part of her somewhere did want the whole "normal life" thing where she finds someone she loves and starts a life with them.

[sherrilina.livejournal.com]

I was never into them THAT much, at least not as much as J/C (fandom's mad R/T love always non-plussed me a bit), perhaps because I wasn't into their characters as much, but they certainly had a tragic and beautiful story that I can appreciate, as a d00med!shipper myself, and I was sad at their end along with J/C's.

[rena-librarian.livejournal.com]

OMFG OTP. <3 *clears throat* I, for one, like to think they could've compromised one way or another and made their relationship work, had she lived. In my headcanon he doesn't nothlit until the hawk body is old enough to be dying, and so he faces the choice of death, or buy himself a human lifespan by nothlitting.

[dejawhoo.livejournal.com]

They depress me :( I don't think they had any more chance than Cassie and Jake did if Rachel had lived, and I actually thought J/C had a chance when I was rereading the series and didn't remember everything that happened. Rachel's psyche was scarred by the war, certainly. She craved the violence, but she also craved the normalcy of a relationship with a human - not a hawk who used to be a human and could turn back into a human for two hours at a time, and as much as I love them, I don't blame her in the least. She put up with it during the war, because she knew he didn't want to be out of the fight, but if she had lived, I don't think she would have put up with it for much longer. Rachel was never the patient, accepting type, even before she did lose her mind.

[mattiris.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if Rachel and Tobias would have lasted if she'd lived; but if she had I think Jake and Cassie would have made it.

[gilina.livejournal.com]

I love this relationship... the more screwed up relationships in stories are always more interesting to me. I really liked that they both saw the other as their anchor to humanity and they couldn't have picked worse people for that purpose.

I think that had Rachel lived they probably would have continued their relationship but it would get steadily more unhealthy. Rachel would no longer have the war as an outlet for her bloodlust and, unless she got serious therapy and probably not even then, this would just drive her closer to the edge, meaning I think they would probably fight a lot (Tobias' abysmal self-esteem would mean that Rachel would probably win).
Similarly, Tobias has no idea HOW to live a normal life. He has no education, a grand total of five humans (the animorphs and his mother) that he has had even remotely stable relationships with. He could (probably) learn to live a human life, but I think he would use Rachel as a kind of barrier between him and the rest of the world.

To summarise, these characters both have such colossal issues that, while I believe they would continue their relationship, this wouldn't be a good thing for either of them.

[amusesme.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed Rachel and Tobias as a couple, but I never understood all of fandom drooling over themselves about it. All those romantic R/T fics I stumble across make me wonder if we were reading the same books.

Rachel and Tobias were never romantic to me. They were completely fucked up... but they loved each other. I like what gilina said above. Rachel and Tobias were about finding humanity in each other. When Rachel was violent and reckless and feeling like a monster, she could ground herself in Tobias again. And when Tobias felt like more hawk than human, he could be a human again with Rachel. They were both animals who were slipping farther and farther away from what was normal.

The one thing that always bugged me was the physical side of the R/T relationship. Imo, Rachel would be a physical kind of girl, especially when they got into high school. And Tobias was the kind of boy who didn't blink or swing his arms when he walked. I think if Rachel ever tried to have sex with Tobias it would be pretty awful and embarrassing for both of them. And Tobias is already insecure enough in his human body that he'd probably panic. And Rachel would take it personally and get angry. BUT FANDOM ALWAYS WRITES THEIR FIRST TIME LIKE IT WOULD BE ROSY AND ROMANTIC AND PERFECT AND I DON'T GET IT.

Anyway.

The tragedy of their relationship is what makes it so fucking amazing. Tobias' bad self-esteem, Rachel's anger, the war... it all blends together into this "I know everything is fucked up and we are fucked up, but hold onto me anyway" thing. And that what I've always loved about it.

[1111-am.livejournal.com]

Imo, Rachel would be a physical kind of girl, especially when they got into high school. And Tobias was the kind of boy who didn't blink or swing his arms when he walked. I think if Rachel ever tried to have sex with Tobias it would be pretty awful and embarrassing for both of them. And Tobias is already insecure enough in his human body that he'd probably panic. And Rachel would take it personally and get angry.

Lol that's so sad yet funny and totally believable for them. Although I'd like to think that Rachel would be fairly understanding with Tobias. Yeah she might get a little snappish with him, but idk I can see her being pretty caring with him. In a lot of the books from either one of their perspectives you can see how different she is with him than how the others see her. Y'know? Then again it is iffy because when it comes to him being a "normal" human boy she can grate on him a bit...

[a-happy-book.livejournal.com]

As much as they're my OTPOTPOTP#1#1#1!!!!!!%^**$ (you get the picture haha), I don't think they would've lasted outside the War. When I was younger (re: 1997/1998), I wrote heaps of fan fic (sadly the parents threw out that computer this year), where Rachel ended up a drug addict (also pregnant, but thats another story for another time). I used to imagine that R/T would end up together happily if not dysfunctionally ever after.

As an adult, I look back and see the mess she wove herself into and Tobias sort of dutifully followed. Rachel would not have been stable enough to function in the world-post War. She was too addicted to violence. And for the ending of 54 *SPOILERS~* Tobias could not cope without her. There was too much dependency on each other to survive, and although yes *SPOILERS~* he has Loren, it doesn't seem to be 'enough' for Tobias.

As someone whose dad is a therapist and owns a lot of therapy books (I read too many as a teen...lol), I think *if* Rachel did survive, she'd have SERIOUS PSTD. Tobias would struggle between humanity and animal life, per usual. And nothing would really be the same. War, in both reality and fiction (well fiction if its done well), changes people and its not always for the better. Case in point.

/endrant

since I can't edit my posts...

[a-happy-book.livejournal.com]

I forgot to add-

As amuseme said, I believe there would not have been a really strong physical relationship between the two. Tobias was too insecure in his own body, and Rachel would've been too impatient to wait. Despite that they're my OTPOTP#1#1#1 etc etc, and yes I would've loved for them to sleep together etc be a normal couple in that regards, I think that it wouldn't have happened.

[almighty-patsy.livejournal.com]

OTPPPPPPPPPP!