Character discussion: Erek

[buffyangellvr23.livejournal.com]

Late post is late. I somehow forgot last night :(

I'm still fascinated by the holographic stuff with the Chee, and how they can hologram the feel of skin.

I can see some debate over the whole nonviolence thing...I've heard some fans say that giving info still is fighting, or facilitating violence...IDK myself. What do you think?

Comments

[isteillia.livejournal.com]

The non violence brings to mind someone who started a character on world of warcraft whom she is trying to get to the max level by not killing anything. She does gathering, information, scavenging, etc, but doesn't shed blood.

The same thing applies to the Chee, in my opinion. They are on the side of good, and do what they can by contributing through non violent means- subterfuge and reconnaissance. That way they can help without causing harm to anyone. They may have been non violent, but they definitely knew the Yeerks were evil, and didn't wish to see them win. However, they still didn't wish harm on them, either- they even had the Yeerks kept alive within their heads. Kept blind and clueless, but they didn't kill them.

/2 cents

[joking.livejournal.com]

I don't see how keeping those Yeerks in their heads was kind. We know from Aftran and Esplin how dreary and empty the life of an unhosted Yeerk is. In fact, you could say the fate of the Yeerks the Chee keep is crueler, because they don't even have the dignity of knowing what's happening to them.

[isteillia.livejournal.com]

I didn't say it was kind- but it was a non violent alternative to letting them go or killing them.

[joking.livejournal.com]

But I am contesting your assertion that the Chee are "on the side of good" because I don't think any character or group of characters in this series is that clear-cut in terms of morality. For "good" people the Chee do some terrible things, like locking up the Yeerks in their heads, or allowing Rachel to die (because if Erek hadn't drained power from the Pool Ship's weapons, the Blade Ship disaster would not have occurred.)

[isteillia.livejournal.com]

I will agree with that- I say "good" in loose terms for lack of a better one. I guess...Chaotic Lawful Good with the Chee? I dunno.

I also had forgotten that Erek had drained the weapons of power- it's been a while since i read the last 5 books. ><;

[blue_rampion]

Furthering this point - I feel like this debate is rather similar to the one about whether trapping David in rat morph was really "better" than killing him. This action is technically non-violent, yes, but yet you could argue that the trauma caused by this is far greater than if they had just killed the Yeerks.

The Chee may have good intentions here, but like with Cassie you can argue that this good intentions sometimes lead to much harsher consequences.

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

Erek is a conniving, sneaky, hypocritical little bastard and I love him. His stunt in #26 was a total "whoa, Erek, REALLY?" moment, and I think did a lot to humanize him. It does make his whole "WTF Jake" moment in #54 seem a bit off, too, since before his big character defining moments had led us to believe that he really was restrained by his programming and nature as an android rather than any moral compunctions against violence. In #10, he's one of the Chee most eager to rewrite their programming, and he can't handle the violence because he can't forget. He is not built to do horrible things because psychologically, he has no healing process. Restrained by his nature. In #26, he lies and manipulates the Anis into killing a race of children pretty much out of revenge. And shows no obvious remorse. So why is #54 Erek all "gee, Jake, I'm suddenly hardcore devoted to my pacifism instead of constantly working against it"?

However, if you want one example of Character Shafted by Ghostwriters, I think Erek might be the biggest example. In KA books, he shows up in #10, #15, #18, #20, #26, #32, Visser and the final arc. He gets character moments in almost half of those. In ghostwritten books, he shows up in #25, #27, #28, #29, #30, #45...and probably some others, but the point is that he serves as nothing but a tool in any of these books. Either he's delivering plot info or he's their generic hologram projector. No wonder the Anis got sick of him - his primary role was "hey guys, here's another dangerous mission, kbye".

[blue_rampion]

He is the "character most often used as a plot device", isn't he? It's a shame, because he's a fascinating character.

...but then really, he was meant to be a one off. So we're lucky we got as much out of him as we did :P

[tobiahawk.livejournal.com]

Interesting point re: 26 and 54... but OTOH, I think you could argue that in 26, pathos kind of overrode everything for him. Don't forget that Erek's inability to forget means he will forever remember the violent slaughter of the people who created him. I'm not saying this justifies Erek's actions, but I think maybe the situation we saw in 26 was all to close to home for Erek to react as he "normally"/ideally would. JMO. Also, perhaps knowing that the aux Animorphs, the general's soldiers, and others were killed drove home to Erek, again, the sheer pain of war/violence. By that point, too, all the Animorphs were pretty frayed by war.

I think KAA wrote him in a really compelling way... the ghostwriters? Not so much.

[blue_rampion]

I always assumed that Erek and the Chee were only incapable of physical violence - everything else was fair game.

Of course, his actions at the end throw a wrench in that theory.

[mattiris.livejournal.com]

Erek was always my favourite supporting character right through the series - a lot of that probably has to do with his role in #26, which is my favourite book, but I always enjoyed the sentence or two he'd pop up in every second book or so.

The way he was characterized in #54 completely destroyed his character for me - and I don't mean in the sense that he was written badly by AppleGrant, because I think he was still consistent with what we knew about him - but just the way he acted and the results that came from his actions really turned me off the character. I'm so glad there's that scene with Cassie where she basically says "we appreciate everything you've done for us but we'll never forgive you for this."

[acts_of_tekla]

*whips out BA in Peace and Justice Studies* (This thing is surprisingly handy.)

Once again, the series ethics are somewhat skewed by the fact that none of the writers seem to have studied peace theory or practical ethics. Physical violence is only one form of violence, and being a pacifist does not mean eschewing all forms of resistance. I realize that it's a bit weird to expect aliens to have studied Gandhian theory, but, well, sci fi isn't actually about aliens.

I find it kind of frustrating that the limits on the Chee seemed to change, and also that they even had the restraint on physical violence in the first place. I thought the Pemalites were supposed to be so advanced that they didn't remember violence -- or was it only after they arrived on Earth that they added that programming? Anyway, I find it really frustrating because very few people would argue that pacifism means that you have to let other people do to you whatever they please -- it just means that you resist without retaliating. (Incidentally, nonviolent resistance has been shown to be 4 times as effective as violent attack as far as ultimately achieving one's goals.)

So, I guess the upshot is that passing on information is probably nonviolent, but imprisoning (and hence effectively torturing) an enemy is really not. Actually, the whole hostage situation that was set up in the end is truly bizarre, and goes against the principles of nonviolent resistance.

However, given that the Pemalite's definition of violence seemed limited to physical violence (e.g. as KA wrote the Chee, they could restrain Rachel, but not harm her), it opens up another question of why they didn't help the Animorphs in other ways, such as cyber attacks or causing distractions.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

wait I thought you majored in biochemistry

what the fuck

[acts_of_tekla]

Double major. And both were kind of requirement heavy. My friends were convinced I was either insane, or secretly Supergirl.

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

those are such random, disparate interests lol. but congrats, that's a lot to take on, and now you're our resident expert in two very different fields :)

[acts_of_tekla]

Yay! Do I get a shiny star or a groovy hat? I do have a tie-dyed lab coat...

The Peace Studies thing isn't quite as random as it seems really -- my focus was in social justice of health, and I'm now working on a Masters in Public Health.

[blue_rampion]

Well, it's entirely possible that the Chee gave us a highly glossed over and biased account of the Pemalites. I imagine they would prefer to remember their creator's positive aspects and shove their negative traits under the carpet (and yes, I know. They don't forgot. But I don't think that there's anything that says they can't lie)

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

I hated the whole "nonviolence" thing because, really, when you think about it, there is no way to define the term "nonviolence" in any concrete sense. So the fact that he was programmed with "nonviolence" is not only stupid but impossible. Technology and robots need to be given concrete, precise instructions. Yes/no, not something so abstract. And the real kicker is--does Erek have free will? I mean the Chee can have opinions, they can disagree with each other, and yet this "nonviolence" clause (whatever that means, the authors sure don't) stumps them all. I mean, for 12-year-olds it's kind of a brilliant plot device because it's one of those non-barriers that is only a barrier when it needs to be, and 12-year-olds don't know anything about philosophy or the morality of violence, so yay! Kind of lazy storytelling!

I think, to be totally frank, the nonviolence thing was consistent up until book 53. Up till that point it is pretty concrete--we can't directly hurt anything. They were pacifists--that is, they're not allowed to get involved in any direct conflict. So in 53, if we'd stayed with that, the Chee would have just stayed out of the fight like they always had, but in that book we're suddenly given this "well you can't let me hurt anyone either, right! I can totes manipulate you!" It made no sense. It contradicted the rules we'd gotten earlier, which were there for good reason. The second the Chee can do anything substantive, the war is over. Look what fucking happened.

So overall, "nonviolence" is a cool thing to play with if you're actually going to play with it and not just have it mean whatever you need for the current plot.

And yeah, their holograms were pretty inconsistent. In AppleGrant books, I think they mimicked not only the look, but FEEL of human skin, but there were a couple of books in there (I think 45 specifically) where people reached through the hologram and felt skin. IDK, STAR TREK VS. FIREFLY HOLOGRAMS

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

*felt robot, whoops

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

The obnoxious thing is that the non-violence thing could have been totally passable if it was just "cannot cause direct physical harm to another being". It would have been simple and it would have worked within the context of the series (except for the final arc but WHAT is up with Erek and the Chee in general at the end I mean really). It definitely would have been a simplified, distilled version of pacifist morality, but it is a kid's series and it still brings up interesting conversations about the nature of free will.

Also, UGH THE HOLOGRAMS. I always tried to justify it to myself that the Chee had little personal force-fields that could be turned on and off at will, that they used to make their hologram more tangible, but...yeah, totally lazy writing. Ghostwriters dropped the ball on that one, I think, because IIRC it was never contradicted in the KA books, but ugh. The Chee got so massively convoluted and contradictory after #26.

[blue_rampion]

I have to admit, I do find Erek's actions in the last two books odd, considering his past actions. He might be physically incapable of violence, but it would be wrong to say he was peaceful. He actively seeks out the ability to do violence. He keeps a Yeerk imprisoned in his head. His gives active support to people who are, essentially, guerrilla fighters. And he actively works towards getting an entire race killed for revenge. These are not the actions of a peaceful being. These are the actions of a violent being. Erek didn't refuse the ability to be violent because of any belief in it being wrong, he refused it because he personally couldn't handle the consequences of that.

In essence, programming aside, Erek is a violent little Chee. So it's puzzling then, that he apparently decided that he should be preventing harm to others instead. Perhaps there are indeed reasons for this - perhaps Erek resented Jake's manipulations, and his powering down of the pool ship's weapons was more in the form of a childish act of revenge. That still doesn't sit right for me though, so I'm undecided.

Personally, I liked Erek's storyline more before this final act. The idea of a being that cannot commit physical violence actively aiding a war effort is interesting, and the inherent contradictions are interesting. He was also a much more sympathetic character then - you know and understand where he comes form, even when he's manipulating others into committing genocide. Whereas his actions at the end are so unexplained it's hard to have any sympathy for him - it just looks like Erek is stubbornly being difficult, despite having aided the Animorphs before, and Rachel pays the price for it.

On another note, who else has wondered what the real Erek King is doing now (and more importantly...is he still an Animorphs fan? :P)

[lisacharly.livejournal.com]

These are not the actions of a peaceful being. These are the actions of a violent being. Erek didn't refuse the ability to be violent because of any belief in it being wrong, he refused it because he personally couldn't handle the consequences of that.

You just put my thoughts out there far more eloquently.

[chiapetzukamori.livejournal.com]

On another note, who else has wondered what the real Erek King is doing now (and more importantly...is he still an Animorphs fan? :P)

Hear hear! haha
I wonder if he read the last two books and was as confused as we all were lol
I wonder if he had fellow Animorph fan friends who ripped on him for being non-violent.
Erek's physical description was done to a photograph of the contest winner, wasn't it? So based on that, I wonder what the real Erek's feelings were on the casting of Chee Erek in the tv show. I mean, really, that must be so weird having someone with your first and last name, knowing they were named after you, in a popular series like that lol

[blue_rampion]

I have no idea how this whole competition thing went, sadly. But it would be kinda weird (not to mention awesome)

[anijen21.livejournal.com]

he's on facebook

[staysleeping.livejournal.com]

lol yeah. He has (or had?) a myspace too. I was being creepy one day and searching for him.