blue_rampion: A blue rose in the rain (Christmas brought to you by Elfangor)
[personal profile] blue_rampion posting in [community profile] animorphslj
Before we get into the minor character discussions, there is a topic I've been wanting to bring up here - discrimination and how they are dealt with and portrayed in the books. We see examples of racism, speciesism, sexism, and discrimination against the disabled, but they're all examined to different degrees and in different ways.

With racism, we see that most prominently with Cassie ("I can turn white" indeed). Marco gets all of one line about being followed by mall security, but they're both characters that would have both dealt with racism in their lives. But overall, while it's brought up on occasion we don't really go too heavily into this issue.

Now, speciesism - that we see a ton of, and I'd argue that a lot of the issues that usually come up in a discussion of racism are in fact explored through speciesism. All of the various aliens have opinions and stereotypes of the other aliens - the Andalites are 'arrogant', the humans are just meat to the Yeerks, the Yeerks are all 'evil', and Hork-Bajir and all nice and sweet and stupid. They've all got preconceived notions of each other, some of them good but a lot of them not good.

Sexism isn't gone into too much, but the series touches on it every now and then - Rachel's got some strong feminist leanings, and we have the Axis of Awesome assuming that the Governor is a man.

And as for discrimination against the disabled...well, we definitely go into that, and this is definitely one of the major failings of Andalite culture.

There's probably also other forms of discrimination in the books that I can't think of, but my questions to you are: Do you think the series do a good job of depicting these issues? Could it (and should it) have gone into more detail on any of them?

Date: 2010-10-03 05:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anijen21.livejournal.com
you know applegrant tried to sell this a little bit as gender cognizance or recognition or something and I face-palmed a little bit. Taking DNA from two boys instead of two boys and two girls does not make a morph that is "more masculine." If anything, the more people he samples from, the more fit his morph is, because it's generally considered healthy to have a more diverse gene pool than a less diverse one.

this is one of those kinds of issues that is just so stupid I get a little mad, sorry. EVERYONE, BOYS GIRLS AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN, IS MADE FROM A MALE AND A FEMALE. The degree of your sexual fitness is not due to having extra of either gene.

Date: 2010-10-03 11:14 pm (UTC)
acts_of_tekla: (Default)
From: [personal profile] acts_of_tekla
Um...but you need a man and a woman to have kids currently not for any reason inherent to genetics, but because we haven't yet figured out how to reliably transfer genetic material between sperm and ova.

The benefits of a "more diverse gene pool" apply to populations far more than to individuals. Siblings can breed together for generations before negative effects show up (*points to ancient Egypt*); conversely, people who couldn't possibly be related may have children with a variety of genetic illnesses.

Basically, as long as Ax ensured that his morph had one X and one Y chromosome, he would wind up genetically male, and for the rest of the genetic material, it doesn't matter what came from where. (Technically, it doesn't matter for the X chromosome either; it's just the Y chromosome that *had* to be created specifically from Jake and Marco because there is no other choice.)

(It probably matters regarding epigenetics, but quite frankly I doubt that AppleGrant even thought about that since a) the field is so new and b) there are points where it's clear they didn't know much more than the basics about regular genetics. Anyway, the morphing cube/power is clearly the series' Balognium -- the one element that makes no logical sense, but is absolutely vital to the series as a whole, so the readers "agree" to suspend disbelief because otherwise reading it is impossible.)

As you can see, while most of y'all were getting your Lit degrees, I was studying Biochemistry.

Date: 2010-10-04 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anijen21.livejournal.com
yeah, you're right. I guess my point is that I'm kind of annoyed by the implication that if Ax had acquired 300 guys and 1 girl, it would have made for a more masculine man than if he had acquired 1 guy and 300 girls. All he needs is an SRY gene and he's good to go, the rest of the stuff all averages and combines and mitoses like it would normally.

as far as more diverse gene pool, you're right--I was thinking more like dogs and how mutts are usually physically healthier specimens because of the genetic diversity when compared to like, purebred bulldogs--but both of those circumstances are the results of generations upon generations, especially the bulldogs.

and what is Balognium? Is that a reference to something or is my stupid showing?

Date: 2010-10-04 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ghaweyriao.livejournal.com
I've always heard stuff like that referred to as 'phlebotinum'.

Date: 2010-10-04 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anijen21.livejournal.com
lol ok I thought that's what it was, but I was wondering if Bolognium was from a specific show or something

Date: 2010-10-05 02:36 am (UTC)
acts_of_tekla: (Default)
From: [personal profile] acts_of_tekla
Balognium is an element of a work of sci fi or fantasy that simply does not work without suspension of disbelief, but since it's necessary for the plot to work, the reader suspends disbelief. Generally "limited" to one per work, because if they start piling up, it's harder to suspend disbelief and the creator starts to look lazy. In Animorphs, this would be the morphing technology. I first encountered the term in one of Red Hen's Potterverse essays, I think one centering on PoA.

It is related to what I term the "One Plot Hole Rule" -- every work is allowed a maximum of one unresolvable plot hole. In Animorphs, that would be the presence of the morphing cube on Elfangor's fighter, given that there is no reason whatsoever for there to be more than one morphing cube kept under super top security and only accessed when new batches of cadets need to be given the morphing power.

Date: 2010-10-05 02:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anijen21.livejournal.com
lol if I had to pick the one plot hole for Animorphs, I'd be quicker to go for the "why the hell didn't Elfangor morph to save himself" angle? I mean, I think either can be resolved with some fannish speculation and forgiveness, but that would have changed the game just as much.

Date: 2010-10-05 03:13 am (UTC)
acts_of_tekla: (Default)
From: [personal profile] acts_of_tekla
I'd argue that "Why didn't Elfangor morph to save himself" can be resolved far more easily -- I can come up with half a dozen reasons off the top of my head. I honestly can't think of a good reason for the morphing cube to have been in his possession. The only thing that remotely makes sense is "The Ellimist told him he'd need it", but even that doesn't explain why he has one when it's one of the Andalites' great military secrets. I mean, I know all the jokes about Military Intelligence (bein' a Navy Brat and all), but seriously, there is no reason whatsoever for it to be allowed out of a single secure installation, much less off-planet.

Date: 2010-10-05 03:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anijen21.livejournal.com
I think both actually make sense like, at the moment they happened--because at that point, we didn't know how often the kids themselves would morph themselves out of life-threatening injuries or fatal situations, OR just how secretive and valued the morphing technology was to the Andalites. They're both kind of retroactive plot holes I guess is what I'm saying--at that point, it was perfectly valid for us to assume that every cadet is given a morphing cube upon completion of basic training (why? who cares?) and that morphing is impossible to do when fatally injured. It's just later plot details that ruin both of those.

and come on, those are by far NOT the only plot holes in the series.

Date: 2010-10-07 03:09 pm (UTC)
acts_of_tekla: (Default)
From: [personal profile] acts_of_tekla
Oh no, I certainly wouldn't claim that they're the only plot holes in the series (and I still don't consider Elfangor not morphing out a plot hole, because there are several legitimate reasons for why he might not have done it), but the presence of the morphing cube is the only one that is absolutely required for the series to work. Most of the others are single book issues -- or frequently KASUs -- that are not necessary and/or could have been closed with better planning. That's why it's the presence of the morphing cube that gets the One Plot Hole designation, at least in my mind.

Date: 2010-10-07 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anijen21.livejournal.com
okay, I getchu. That makes sense. Kind of a suspension-of-disbelief plot hole than "IN BOOK ONE WHY JAKE CAN THOUGHT SPEAK AS HUMAN?" kind of thing

Date: 2010-10-07 06:45 pm (UTC)
acts_of_tekla: (Default)
From: [personal profile] acts_of_tekla
Exactly -- I suppose the test is, "If I got rid of this plot hole, what would happen?" In most cases, the answer is "nothing" or "the book would be much shorter (because it's an Idiot Plot)"; but if the answer is "the entire series implodes", it's probably a candidate for the One Plot Hole rule. That's why I call it the One Plot Hole Rule -- if a story requires major suspension of disbelief for more than one element, it indicates lazy writing. The other test I use for the One Plot Hole Rule is, "Can I come up with a way in which the story could have been constructed so as to eliminate the necessity for the One Plot Hole?" If I can't, then I can hardly blame the author for not being able to figure it out. In the case of the morphing cube, I have a couple of ideas that sort of work, but they would substantially change the story, and in ways that I don't particularly like.

So...yeah. Thus concludes my digression on silly, arbitrary "rules" that only I care about. Thanks for humoring me, y'all.

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